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I Like Pie
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07-15-2007, 08:37 PM
Post subject: How do you proceed when this situation comes up?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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Facing a somewhat aggressive villain each time. What's your usual play in these spots?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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bet or check/raise/raise/raise.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Im leading nearly every time in these situations and hoping to be able to bet/3bet AI
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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dont check call and dont check fold
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
check fold
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i like this line!
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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I pretty much c/r all of these.
I wonder how many people treat these situations different wether they have the pair combined with the draw or haven't. I'm not, but I think I should.
I hope some can explain why bet/raise or check/raise with or without the pair in certain situations is better or not. Ofcourse it depends heavily on the board and player, but we have a few nice examples here, so why not start with that.
I'll give it a try:
Hand 1: Buttons range is wide. He could fold to a bet easily, so maybe b/3b with only a draw and c/r or even c/c with TP and the draw, to take as much from him as possible?
Hand 2: It's 3-way and very draw heavy board. B/3-b with the pair because other draws will raise this board and we're likely ahead? And c/r for most FE without the pair?
Hand 3: With the pair a b/3b and without the pair a c/r?
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Agreed with everyone else. Try to get it all-in somehow or bet as much as possible on the flop.
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I Like Pie
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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I usually bet out too. I did all three hands there and got flat called everytime and went on to hit nothing and lose every hand. So I just wanted to see if there were any other approaches or views on this.
I had 2 more of these today:
Quote:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP ($210.35)
CO ($197)
Button ($209)
SB ($326.20)
Hero ($214.75)
UTG ($186.80)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 , 5.
2 folds, CO raises to $8, 1 fold, SB calls $7, Hero calls $6.
Flop: ($24) 5 , 8, T (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, CO raises to $36, SB raises to $109, Hero folds, CO calls $197 (All-In), SB calls $80.
Turn: ($417) J (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($417) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Final Pot: $417
Results below:
SB has 3s As (high card, ace).
CO has Kd Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: CO wins $417. SB wins $44
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Quote:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($215.55)
Button ($236.05)
SB ($201)
Hero ($200)
UTG ($196)
MP ($195.16)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 6.
2 folds, CO raises to $7, 2 folds, Hero calls $5.
Flop: ($15) 5, 4, T (2 players)
Hero bets $8, CO raises to $24, Hero raises to $110, CO folds.
Final Pot: $63
Results below:
No showdown. Hero wins $63.
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Fifth time's a charm I guess.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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Wow, I learned something huge today. I put all 5 of these hands thru pokerstove, against a player with a raising range of 5%, 10%, 15%, and 20% (aggressive opponent you referred to) and I just about shit my pants. I had no clue about these equitys at all. Of course, I just started paying attention to equity and just started using pokerstove against ranges in my session reviews a couple weeks ago. If you start adding that with FE it's off the scale. against the $100NL donkeys anyway.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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If you run bet/shove lines here, then you need to be betting out with air sometimes to balance it out.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
If you run bet/shove lines here, then you need to be betting out with air sometimes to balance it out.
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and the nuts
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Wow, I learned something huge today. I put all 5 of these hands thru pokerstove, against a player with a raising range of 5%, 10%, 15%, and 20% (aggressive opponent you referred to) and I just about shit my pants.
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What we talking? Flips? Cause I often see these situations as LOL LET'S FLIP FOR STACKS situations where i can make up for the 1% equity losses here and there by taking my image away from the nitzone.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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I'm talking some of them are 65+% against a 15% raiser and higher. Unless the guy is a 5% preflop raiser and you hit MP w/FD Your equity may be a flip but with FE and the money in the pot, your EV is way above flips. With an aggressive player like OP mentioned that's raising much higher pre, depending on your hand having TP, MP or overs and a FD it's not even close
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
If you run bet/shove lines here, then you need to be betting out with air sometimes to balance it out.
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and the nuts |
Sometimes, I play the nuts lots of different ways.
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I Like Pie
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
If you run bet/shove lines here, then you need to be betting out with air sometimes to balance it out.
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I do. Instead of 3-betting pre-flop vs. a constant blind stealer sometimes I just call with any two and fire on the flop.
I'll bet into pre-flop raisers when I hit a big flop too.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
open fold
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i like this line! |
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