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Irisheyes
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12-12-2006, 10:28 PM
Post subject: How do I play this
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
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Villian is a good regular player. Plays 25/21/5.5 We do get in reraising wars every so often, haven't really been at it today but he is def. capable of reraising me light and mixing it up in some situations.
I have a PSB left on the turn, should I push it in at any point in this hand?
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($932.90)
BB ($454.10)
UTG ($229.90)
MP ($579.45)
Button ($167.85)
Preflop: Hero is SB with T , T . Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, 1 fold, Button calls $4, Hero (poster) raises to $22, BB raises to $62, UTG folds, Button folds, Hero calls $42.
Flop: ($140) 9, 6, 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $107, Hero calls $107.
Turn: ($354) 7 (2 players)
check, check
River: ($354) 6 (2 players)
check, check
Final Pot: $354
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
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I dont think he is going to be fucking around too much in this pot and with the turn check through he most likely has a mid PP, a completely whiffed hand or a hand like JJ that you are behind. If we push this river it is pretty doubtful that he is going to be folding anything we beat and I doubt he is calling with something we beat. The one thing Id be worried about, since we are oop, is him bluff pushing the river but all we could do is push to prevent that and I dont really think thats much of an option. I think this is played fine without a better read [i.e. that he is prone to bluffing in 3bet pots beyond a cbet, etc.].
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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also if you fold preflop or the flop let me know plz.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
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Given that he's solid:
He must have KK or AK about 80% of the time. Maybe the other 10% he has JJ-QQ, and 10% air.
Once you call his flop bet, he must think that you will not call another bet unless you beat KK.
I don't think he has AA or set here because he would bet again, hoping you will call with an overpair. On the otherhand, I doubt he folds KK (or even the rare QQ). I would also think he might bet air again, since that's the only way he can win.
Putting the rest in folds AK and anything else you beat. You are giving him a chance to draw to 6 outs... but most of the time you are crushed.
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gabe
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Moderator
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looks good, i fold flop against alot of people though
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mcatdog
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
Given that he's solid:
He must have KK or AK about 80% of the time. Maybe the other 10% he has JJ-QQ, and 10% air.
Once you call his flop bet, he must think that you will not call another bet unless you beat KK.
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Umm, no. Honestly zenbitz, how often have you played in an aggressive game where there are lots of pre-flop re-raising wars?
Irisheyes,
I think you might get him to make a heroic call with a few hands that you're beating, but it's not worth it because most of the time when he calls he has you beat.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
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Your TT > his AK?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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I'd push river to try to get him off a bigger overpair
if he doesn't have a bigger overpair it's not like you're losing value. plus it'll look bluffy, if he's capable of hero calls you might see one with 88
btw don't know if I'd actually do this in heat of moment I'd prob just check like a wuss
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
looks good, i fold flop against alot of people though
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If you are going to fold an all under flop against some players, should you just fold pre? You cant really call PF for set value so you are playing it as an overpair, and if that isnt good on this board it wont be good on any, so just ditch it pre against those guys. Against somebody 3betting you light though they are going to be cbetting most of these flops so a call is a must.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Genitruc
I'd push river to try to get him off a bigger overpair
if he doesn't have a bigger overpair it's not like you're losing value. plus it'll look bluffy, if he's capable of hero calls you might see one with 88
btw don't know if I'd actually do this in heat of moment I'd prob just check like a wuss
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This is actually exactly what I was talking about in my post. We arent really going to be getting value from worse hands in most cases [there is a slim chance from a hand like 88 as you said, but I wouldnt factor that _too_ much into my decision], but we need to think about the likelihood he is folding something like JJ and also the likelihood he would bluff with a hand we beat.
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Irisheyes
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
looks good, i fold flop against alot of people though
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If you are going to fold an all under flop against some players, should you just fold pre? |
This is a good point.
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zenbitz
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
looks good, i fold flop against alot of people though
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If you are going to always fold an all under flop against some players, should you just fold pre? |
FYP.
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mcatdog
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
looks good, i fold flop against alot of people though
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If you are going to fold an all under flop against some players, should you just fold pre? |
The ones that he's folding the flop against aren't the ones who are three-betting lots of hands and auto-betting any flop. It's OK to call pre-flop against these guys because sometimes when they can't beat tens they'll check behind.
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gabe
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hes getting odds to call for set value preflop
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Irisheyes
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
hes getting odds to call for set value preflop
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I don't think so. I'm calling $42 and he has like $460 behind. The 10x rule is BS. I don't think it holds here even though his range is tightish.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
hes getting odds to call for set value preflop
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I didnt really notice stacks, but even if its according to the 10:1 rule [as irish just said], I still dont know if its good enough. If his opponent is solid, the implied odds probably arent there.
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euphoricism
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any validity to a blockbetkindathing on the river?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
any validity to a blockbetkindathing on the river?
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if villain is good (and imo 25/21/5.5 are about as scary as stats go...) then block betting this river in position is asking to get bluff-raised. Obv most players are incapable of this kind of play but JJ and QQ insta-call a block bet whereas they are hardpressed to call a push (esp if villain views Irish as non-maniacal).
What can he call with that you beat? I think checking is about as good as pushing and both are better than blockbetting.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
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fwiw I think 10:1 rule is a hunk of shit unless your hand FREQUENTLY will have overpair value when villain c-bets.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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gabe
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
hes getting odds to call for set value preflop
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I don't think so. I'm calling $42 and he has like $460 behind. The 10x rule is BS. I don't think it holds here even though his range is tightish. |
the 10x rule isn't BS at all.....i live by it
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
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gabe you think the set-over-sets + scare cards to villain's overpairs + times villain only has overcards is compensated enough by the 10x rule?
I'm asking cuz I don't really have a rule I live by. 10x just seems a bit optimistic.
Edit : also, villains who don't always stack off w overpair hurts our odds
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
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i think the 10x is fine if you are good at hand reading
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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which is cancelled by the fact that he is as good at hand reading.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
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Gabe what stack do you think he needs for me to call with 67d?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
looks good, i fold flop against alot of people though
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If you are going to fold an all under flop against some players, should you just fold pre? |
The ones that he's folding the flop against aren't the ones who are three-betting lots of hands and auto-betting any flop. It's OK to call pre-flop against these guys because sometimes when they can't beat tens they'll check behind. |
So, is this guy auto-betting flops, or checking behind when he can't beat 10s?
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Staresy
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Full House
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Quick question ..... or two (and I apologise if this is a 'jack), but;
at what level (buy-in) does the 10x rule start to diminish?
what 'rule' / how much are we looking at villian's having behind instead?
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