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grindinginnj
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01-04-2010, 04:09 PM
Post subject: hourly rate
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grinding In New Jersey!!
Posts: 143
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What do you guys think is a decent hourly rate at .25/.50nl 6 max 3 tables.
same question for .50/1nl
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Stackin chips and rippin lips!!
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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with rakeback? probably $25/40
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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I play full ring, so my estimation may be off for 6-max, but you can use it as reference. I play 6 tables full ring @ $100NL and I'm making about $22 an hour WITHOUT considering bonuses on PokerStars. I consider my results to be at least "decent" if not better. If you simply divided my hourly rate by 2 to compensate for the lower $50NL stake and then divide it by 2 again to account for 3 tables instead of the 6 I usually play, you get $6.25 an hour.
If you add in bonuses, a little bit more for the extra skill advantage that 6 max players should enjoy versus full ring, and also a little more win-rate for playing less tables, you're probably looking @ $8.00 an hour or so. I would think $4.00 an hour would be considered good, too. That sounds about right. To make $10 an hour assuming 50 hands per table per hour playing 3 tables (150 hands per hour), you'd have to be making 13.33 bb/100, so it all depends on your edge and how fast the hands are flying.
To make $25 an hour playing at that same pace, you'd need to be pulling 22 bb/100 and 44 bb/100 to make $50 an hour.
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- Jason
 
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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it was a rough guess, but after i dropped down to nl100 this summer, i made ~$75/hour 8 tabling after rakeback, and i think that was at like 4ptbb/100.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I think it's pretty impossible for an 100nl reg to make >50/hr playing 100nl. You'd have to play a ton of tables (>14)and play very well, I was never able to break 50 an hour even when I was demolishing 100nl 8 tabling last March. I never beat 1/2 for more than 75/hr either, 50-60 was more realistic.
I agree w/ what Jason said, it seems pretty spot on IME.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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5BB/100 at 100nl is $10 every 100 hands, so if you play 500 hands an hour, that is $50/hour without including rakeback. And 5BB/100 is easily attainable at 100nl imo.
So I think >$50 an hour at 100nl is not even close to impossible!
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Re-read my post, I said for a 100nl reg it's pretty impossible. If I went and played 100nl now I'm pretty sure I could do it, as could most regs at higher stakes ...
If you can beat a stake at 5BB/100 you'd almost always move up before u can actualize it.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Marshall, 8 tabling nl100 is like 700 hands/hour and at 4ptbb/100 gets you just shy of $60 and $15 in rakeback or so. Not that hard at all. I get what your saying about moving up though, i've just felt comfortable after dropping down and since i have limited time to play now, i like the easy money nl100 gets me without a ton of variance.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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i'm 8 tabling 1/2 and am averaging around 550 hands an hour (700 seems way too much unless people make insta decisions non stop)
anyway with 40% rakeback or so i'm around 80bux/hour but perhaps sample size is too small (125k hands)
i think its in the neighborhood of 2.75 - 3.25 ptBB/100
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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550 hands 8 tabling is quite low isn't it?
I play at Stars, I haven't looked up HEM but my perception is that I play more an hour there.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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yeah, 550 hands/hr is way low for 8 tabling. is there somewhere to check in HEM? i usually play ~1 hr sessions and i get 650-700 per session usually on FTP.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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i dont think it's low at all.
what you have to look at is a long term average over a large sample. when you start a session you are never instantly playing 8 tables at once, unless you're not table selecting. so it might take 10-15 minutes til you are up to full speed with 8 reasonable tables to grind. if you have to get up and go to the bathroom, you sit out and by the time you come back it takes a while to get to the BB again and some tables might kick you off...
also in general most table averages are around 75 hands/hour or so. again might depend on how you play, i ALWAYS take time to make decisions, even trivial ones. you could say its the 3 second rule, its about being less readable for timing tells etc... for instance I always wait the same amount of time when I 4bet or fold to a 3bet for instance
also, if you decide to 8 table you dont ALWYAS have 8 tables going, you might be on some waitlists, you might be on 8 tables gut waiting to get to the BB for the orbit to start.
again, if you are table selecting well which you should be, then you are likely opening and closing tables dozens of times in a SINGLE day which again disrupts the average number of tables you have up and running.
ultimately poker isnt about hands per hour its about $ per hour, however you maximize this is up to you, and this is what works for me.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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The software is gonna have something to do with that as well. I'm certain you can get more hands/hour on stars compared to euro sites if you are table selecting the exact same way.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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i dont think anyone is criticizing you, just thought the hands/hour was low.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Go into HEM, click on Sessions, and it will show you how many minutes you have played for each session. At the bottom it will show you the total hours you have played for the day/month/year etc... Just divide your hands by your hours and you get your hands per hour!
This month so far I am playing 556 hands an hour 6-7 tabling 5-max. However, I do table-select religiously, so sometimes I have only 4 tables running.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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sure here it is from this month:
13336 hands
23.33 hours
avg players 5.5
~ 570 hands / hour
-> again need to state that im generally the slowest player at each of my tables because i use a few seconds to make each decision even if trivial. this is generally what i see from higher stakes players and when viewing training vids, so i think timing is important and never to make hasty decisions.
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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decent rate is 4bb/100, for you:
4*5.7= 22.8$ per hour before rakeback
You asked for decent and by my definition 4bb is decent. All under sucks and all over 6 is great. Playing 3 tables with tableselection i think you should be able to avg atleast 8 tho..
All depends on your game so far, and how far you can go urself..
edit: ur not op, so nvm
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
5BB/100 at 100nl is $10 every 100 hands, so if you play 500 hands an hour, that is $50/hour without including rakeback. And 5BB/100 is easily attainable at 100nl imo.
So I think >$50 an hour at 100nl is not even close to impossible! |
lol.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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I don't see the funny
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Time for some prop bets imo.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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sure what do people wanna bet on
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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finally checked HEM. since july of last year, i'm avg. 645 hands/hr and thats ~25% 6 tabling ~75% 8 tabling FTP.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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maybe you play 5 hours at a time without taking a break. i simply cant do that. my sessions are rarely longer than 2 - 2 1/2 hours and it always takes time to get back up to fullspeed when you do a few sessions a day.
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
I don't see the funny
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Well, time for a propbet then
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ZwiFT
Quote:
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Originally Posted by JL
I don't see the funny
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Well, time for a propbet then |
Lol. What you don't think 5BB/100 is attainable at $100NL?
I guess it depends what site you play on. I play on the Ongame network, and it is super soft at $100NL 5-max. If you are decent and most importantly if you table select well, then 5BB/100 or more is not too hard to attain.
No prop bet by me though...I am taking shots at $400NL, and I don't think I'll be beating that for 5BB/100... 
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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5BB/100 at 100nl? I don't think I could do that.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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?? why is 5BB not attainable at 100nl, when it prob is even at 400nl?
Hell, I'd even take JL's side if there's a propbet.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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I think its possible to maintain that with huge tableselection, by very select few. However I dont think its easily maintainable, like you said in your prev post.
Even if you play higher than 100nl and think of that game as trash, remember that you play with much lower rake to stack ratio.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
?? why is 5BB not attainable at 100nl, when it prob is even at 400nl?
Hell, I'd even take JL's side if there's a propbet.
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5BB/100 is not attainable at 400nl unless you're a really big winner at 25/50 6 max. Note I am saying Big Bets not bb's.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I'll take the under side of the prop bet as well.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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sigh, guess ill have to go for it if there's a decent amount of action?
Do I get any odds though since it's "not attainable"?
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
sigh, guess ill have to go for it if there's a decent amount of action?
Do I get any odds though since it's "not attainable"?
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Let me just clarify my position as I admit my wording may have been strong. 5BB/100 (10bbs/100) at 400nl is not an possible achievable long term winrate unless you are one of the top players at 6 max across stakes. I certainly don't think we would want to make a bet proving that this isn't the case (I think that would take 300-500k hands).
I have no idea how bad the play at 400nl is at euro sites. Alexos, have you actually achieved 5ptBB/100 long term at 400nl?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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ISF, I think the propbet is for 100NL
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Yea I was 5.5ptbb over >400k hands of 2/5-50/100 (mostly 2/5-5/10 though). Then I switched sites a lot so i don't know exactly, but currently 4.5ptbb on my new site (non-euro), and could be better if I 6 tabled with game selection instead of 12-16 tabling.
Nonetheless, I would still bet on JL doing it at 100nl, although he clearly stated he doesnt want to :P
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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That's pretty sick Alexos considering you play that many tables.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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Yea, I don't think its THAT uncommon though, especially in these days where higher stakes run less often than they used to, a lot of players just churn in high winrates at midstakes instead of moving up.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
sigh, guess ill have to go for it if there's a decent amount of action?
Do I get any odds though since it's "not attainable"?
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Do we get any odds since its "easily attainable" ?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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never said its easily attainable, just that it is more common than you guys seem to think
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I would definitely bet against anyone besides a high stakes guy doing 5ptBB/100 at 100nl.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I would definitely bet against anyone besides a high stakes guy doing 5ptBB/100 at 100nl.
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am i missing something here? there are a ton of regs in the 100nl games on FTP making 5ptBB/100. im at 3.1ptbb/100 (hudge brag, i know) at 100nl over 85k hands since last july, and i'm pretty terrible at poker.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I would definitely bet against anyone besides a high stakes guy doing 5ptBB/100 at 100nl.
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am i missing something here? there are a ton of regs in the 100nl games on FTP making 5ptBB/100. im at 3.1ptbb/100 (hudge brag, i know) at 100nl over 85k hands since last july, and i'm pretty terrible at poker. |
85k hands is not that significant of a sample.
I looked on PTR and it seems there are 5-6 regs doing over 5ptBB/100 at 6 max 100nl. I think I underestimated the amount of fish at these stakes. However, if your doing 5ptBB/100 at any stakes long term you should be moving up. That is an insane winrate and should be treated as such.
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I would definitely bet against anyone besides a high stakes guy doing 5ptBB/100 at 100nl.
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am i missing something here? there are a ton of regs in the 100nl games on FTP making 5ptBB/100. im at 3.1ptbb/100 (hudge brag, i know) at 100nl over 85k hands since last july, and i'm pretty terrible at poker. |
85k hands is not that significant of a sample.
I looked on PTR and it seems there are 5-6 regs doing over 5ptBB/100 at 6 max 100nl. I think I underestimated the amount of fish at these stakes. However, if your doing 5ptBB/100 at any stakes long term you should be moving up. That is an insane winrate and should be treated as such. |
Got any tips for me 16-20 tabling 3ptbb/100 at nl100 for over 400k hands beeing to pussy to move up in stakes? I play fullring and i feel like all the regs go past nl100 and stops to grind profit at nl200, and thats why im to big of a pussy to move up
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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here's a good idea, if you're very comfy with 100nl, dont just say well i got the br to play 200nl or whatever, why not just make 1/3 or 1/2 your tables 200nl - and just find REALLY good tables at the higher stakes.
i play 1/2 but sometimes if i see a great 2/4 table ill add it specifically to target one or two fish who are sitting there.
so if you're used to 16 tabling FR, if you 8 table 100nl and 8 table 200nl then its effectively like moving to 150nl, as long as your table selection remains strong you'll likely do just fine.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ZwiFT
Got any tips for me 16-20 tabling 3ptbb/100 at nl100 for over 400k hands beeing to pussy to move up in stakes? I play fullring and i feel like all the regs go past nl100 and stops to grind profit at nl200, and thats why im to big of a pussy to move up
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I'm close to making a move @ $200NL Full Ring from $100NL. Have you thought about moving up and playing less tables like 8-10 or so instead of 16-20?
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- Jason
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ZwiFT
Got any tips for me 16-20 tabling 3ptbb/100 at nl100 for over 400k hands beeing to pussy to move up in stakes? I play fullring and i feel like all the regs go past nl100 and stops to grind profit at nl200, and thats why im to big of a pussy to move up
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I'm close to making a move @ $200NL Full Ring from $100NL. Have you thought about moving up and playing less tables like 8-10 or so instead of 16-20? |
Yes, but i feel like my view of longrun gets more cramped the less tables i play, and i tilt way faster when playing less tables.
for example, when i 16-20 table i dont care about 20-40k break even streches, i dont care about 10-15 buyin downswings.. But when i tile 9 tables i get fustraited after losing 2+ buyins, esp if i ran good in the start then hit a bump in the road
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flomarilius
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High Card
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
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$20-40 sounds like a good range to me albeit a huge one
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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ZwiFT,
Move up. As you move up it won't seem like that much money anymore and 200nl will be like 100nl is for you now
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Dragon Slayer
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ZwiFT
Got any tips for me 16-20 tabling 3ptbb/100 at nl100 for over 400k hands beeing to pussy to move up in stakes? I play fullring and i feel like all the regs go past nl100 and stops to grind profit at nl200, and thats why im to big of a pussy to move up
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I'm close to making a move @ $200NL Full Ring from $100NL. Have you thought about moving up and playing less tables like 8-10 or so instead of 16-20? |
I do something like this. Im making the move from NL50 to NL100 6max. I usually play 4 tables. I have been making one of my tables 100 and the other 3 50. I have also been table selecting the hell outta the one 100 table. Now that Im more comfortable there Im playing 2 100'2 and 2 50's. Also sometimes I'll play just 2 or 3 100 tables and concentrate more, like you said its the same as plying 4-5 NL50 tables. I dont think you ever have to say "Ok Im moving up a level" and stay there. Some days when Im not feeling as good I might just make all my tables 50, depends on my mood.
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