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Lukie
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07-01-2006, 05:02 PM
Post subject: A hand vs dsaxton
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Villain in this hand is FTR member dsaxton, who is one of the better players in the game and is a regular at 1/2 and 2/4. 2/4 now exclusively I think?
Anyway, his stats are 19/12/2, and his call from the BB means something here the vast majority of the time I think. He is on several of my tables and has generally tried staying out of my way and hasn't played back at me a whole lot. Maybe this makes my turn raise stupid? I made it because I feel he 3-bets QQ+ back at me preflop, he folds any jack, 33 is very unlikely, which leaves very few hands that I feel he can call or push over this raise with. If I remember correctly, the raise size was such that I could make an all-in bet on the river for about 2/3 pot (could be wrong, going from memory here). I would play a huge hand like this more times then not I think.
At the time, I thought he had something like 99/TT but I really didn't know and I still don't.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
BB ($379.50)
UTG ($255.65)
MP ($826.80)
Hero ($2111.90)
Button ($533.10)
SB ($1150.05)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , A.
2 folds, Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, BB calls $10.
Flop: ($30) 6 , 3 , J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, BB calls $20.
Turn: ($70) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $32, Hero raises to $125...
Final Pot: $227
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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i check behind on that flop because he almost always has a pocket pair and will not usually fold
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i check behind on that flop because he almost always has a pocket pair and will not usually fold
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Ehhh I disagree. If we put villain on a pocket pair betting the flop is highly +EV if we continue the bluff on the turn, especially given that Lukie does not often get out of line and is a very tight player. I would except Dsaxton to fold anything less than a monster when Lukie raises the turn or fires a second barrell.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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I like it.
He's obviously trying to control the pot and is unsure whether he has the best hand.
Whenever I detect what I think is a "feeler bet" I like to launch some misinformation back at 'em whenever I can.
He would've probably bet a little more with a monster because he needs the pot to be 250+ dollars on the river so he can stack you. Also I imagine he'd lead the flop with a set a lot of the time.
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bluey
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 347
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why lead the flop with a set?
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BR: $.1k
Goal 2: July 1 $10k
IIbeatsUU: lol u raised with that?
you mini raised, therefore you desereve whatever you get....
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bluey
why lead the flop with a set?
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because lukie is tight and has a hand he'd reraise a flop bet with a lot, bloating the pot early.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I was raising ~15% of my hands on this table, probably 20%++ opening from the CO.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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nice
dsaxton folds here without a monster or a good read your playing him.
What intrigues me s why you made it 125 here instead of 95/100 ish?
Do you overbet a monster like this here normally or look for a call of the raise?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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its not an overbet
its a psr
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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I think vs a thinking player like dsaxton, who is certainly capable of taking this line w/a monster, I would prefer a smooth call on the turn, with the intention of taking the pot down on the river if he shows weakness, but of course folding to a substantial bet. Using this line would really represent TPTK/overpair I think from his perspective, and I definitely think dsax is capable of folding TPTK to river aggression.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
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Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i check behind on that flop because he almost always has a pocket pair and will not usually fold
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Fire 2 barrels > check flop > cbet & give up.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
nice
dsaxton folds here without a monster or a good read your playing him.
What intrigues me s why you made it 125 here instead of 95/100 ish?
Do you overbet a monster like this here normally or look for a call of the raise?
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it's like a 3/4 pot raise that sets up a pretty callable all-in river bet. Seems pretty standard with a monster if we don't smooth call in position, no?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
i check behind on that flop because he almost always has a pocket pair and will not usually fold
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Fire 2 barrels > check flop > cbet & give up. |
Lukie often cbets and gives up here. 
He also mixes in the 2 barrell and the check flop, but probably in the wrong frequency.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
I think vs a thinking player like dsaxton, who is certainly capable of taking this line w/a monster, I would prefer a smooth call on the turn, with the intention of taking the pot down on the river if he shows weakness, but of course folding to a substantial bet. Using this line would really represent TPTK/overpair I think from his perspective, and I definitely think dsax is capable of folding TPTK to river aggression.
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I don't like this very much because if I call the turn, I think it's much more likely he will c/c a river bet with a marginal 1 pair hand like 99/TT/AJ and the like. There's no implied threat on the next street since he will be closing the action.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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calling the turn is horrible in my opinion, knowing dsax he probably calls with a lot on the river if played like that.
missed the pot size on the turn for the raise my mistake
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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I think this is a perfect example of using pressure points in a hand. Dsaxton has to decide if he wants to play for stacks with this turn bet. Without a read you're bullying a lot, he'll fold any non-boat hand (probably >90% of his range). Seems ++EV to me.
On the other hand, playing a monster like this doesn't seem that +EV as calling turn, 3/4 pot river.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
I think this is a perfect example of using pressure points in a hand. Dsaxton has to decide if he wants to play for stacks with this turn bet. Without a read you're bullying a lot, he'll fold any non-boat hand (probably >90% of his range). Seems ++EV to me.
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bingo
Quote:
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On the other hand, playing a monster like this doesn't seem that +EV as calling turn, 3/4 pot river.
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I'd definately mix it up here, as I would try to with a lot of hands.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Since you are both nits and know it, Dsaxon is trapping you with a set that filled up on the turn, or possibly an overpair.l
Why would he donk that turn with a bad or mediocre hand? You both know neither of you have a 3 (33??) If he has a mid pair why would he bet less than 1/2 pot like that?
He is trying to feel whether you have a hand, sure - but that's because he wants you to stick some money in and win more than the minimum. He knows that if he (being a nit) c/r you (another nit) on the turn, you will drop anything worse than 2 pair.
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