Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

  > 

Halfstacking hands thread

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
euphoricism
Old 11-05-2007, 08:25 PM     Post subject: Halfstacking hands thread #1 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
I'll probably make one long thread of half stack hands since the people who dont care about halfstacking probably wont want the forum filled with them.


No converter on Cake.

Hand 1
Just sat, unknown villain. 200nl. Just call river?

Hand #1309012093000520: Seville (6-Max) 12093
Seat 1: Alphabeta (178.90 in chips)
Seat 2: Cornholio22 (197.00 in chips)
Seat 4: monavie (200.00 in chips)
Seat 5: godlovesyou (186.95 in chips)
Seat 6: GotNoSteerin (104.40 in chips)
Seat 10: kevmev (67.00 in chips)
godlovesyou: posts small blind $1
GotNoSteerin: posts big blind $2
Dealt to GotNoSteerin [ :Qh: ]
kevmev: folds
Alphabeta: calls
Cornholio22: folds
godlovesyou: folds
GotNoSteerin: checks
*** FLOP *** [ , , :Qs: ]
GotNoSteerin: bets $4
Alphabeta: calls
*** TURN *** [ ]
GotNoSteerin: bets $12
Alphabeta: calls
*** RIVER *** [ ]
GotNoSteerin: bets $35
Alphabeta: raises to $70
GotNoSteerin: is all in
Alphabeta: calls


Hand 2
Shit, lost the hand history for this one, but its ok its simple. Spewy?

Unknown villain. Hero raises 4x with 88 in MP. BTN calls.
Flop 23J rainbow. Hero bets about 3/4 pot. BTN 3x's. Hero shoves.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Chopper
Old 11-05-2007, 08:32 PM #2 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
i thought you said you were done shorting because of variance? am i misunderstood?

hand one...yes, call, imo. too much shit out for a limped pot. although, i prolly shove, too, out of reflex.

hand two...i prolly fold here to villains raise. when short, i want to do the pushing. but, i prolly dont raise 88 while short, either. pp's go down in value when short. you simply cant set hunt them, and you run into this spot too often.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 11-05-2007, 08:44 PM #3 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
i thought you said you were done shorting because of variance? am i misunderstood?

hand one...yes, call, imo. too much shit out for a limped pot. although, i prolly shove, too, out of reflex.

hand two...i prolly fold here to villains raise. when short, i want to do the pushing. but, i prolly dont raise 88 while short, either. pp's go down in value when short. you simply cant set hunt them, and you run into this spot too often.
Nope thats not me.

If we use 10x as a baseline for set camping, then calling 4x preflop raises with 50bb stacks would be fine. Besides, raising preflop isnt the same as set camping. So Im not sure that applies.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-05-2007, 11:20 PM #4 (permalink)  
IowaSkinsFan's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enoughIowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough
 first hand lol cmon super standard.

second hand idk probably isnt a big deal either way.
Check out the new blog!!!
 
Reply With Quote
|~|ypermegachi
Old 11-06-2007, 12:55 AM #5 (permalink)  
|~|ypermegachi's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|~|ypermegachi
hand 1: uber standard
hand 2: only if you wanna stack off because villain is never folding.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 11-09-2007, 05:43 AM #6 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Hand 3

Tables have been pretty nitty and I've been raising like a monkey. Villain is 21/15 with a 100% cbet over 50ish hands. I think this flop c/rai is obv standard but i think we should fold pre alot... (and im 70bb deep not 50)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($118.30)
BB ($214.85)
UTG ($20.05)
MP ($51)
Hero ($78.60)
Button ($100)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, Button raises to $14, 2 folds, Hero calls $10.

Flop: ($29.50) A, K, T (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $18, Hero raises to $64.6...
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
|~|ypermegachi
Old 11-09-2007, 07:26 AM #7 (permalink)  
|~|ypermegachi's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|~|ypermegachi
hand 3: folding preflop to 3bet or as played is standard.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 11-09-2007, 02:35 PM #8 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Puke-gasm. Villain #1 Swinky is unknown. Villain #2, 2lazy2work is an abysmally poor poker player, loves to check/minraise and then minbet the turn and other junk. Basically thinks poker is about making the biggest bluff. They both cover me.

I've erased irrelevant hand history junk. Its 5 handed.

Hand #1313012285000156: Chelsea (6-Max) 12285
Seat 4: Swinky (99.00 in chips)
Seat 7: GotNoSteerin (56.05 in chips)
Seat 10: 2lazy2work (68.85 in chips)
Swinky: posts small blind $0.50
GotNoSteerin: posts big blind $1
Dealt to GotNoSteerin [ Kd Ah ]
2lazy2work: raises to $7.50 Villains PFR is prob around top 10% here. But it's a pretty big 7.5x raise preflop...
Swinky: calls

GotNoSteerin: raises to $24 see footnote
2lazy2work: calls Basically obvious he doesnt have AA/KK
Swinky: calls
*** FLOP *** [ 9d, 2s, 7h ] Pot is about 75, obv more than my stack
Swinky: is all in Shit. My pot is now about $100
GotNoSteerin Puke/Calls his $30 hoping his 6 outs are clean.
2lazy2work is still left to act.


*FootNote*
My first inclination was to just shove over them. After the hand I tried to figure out if that was a good move or not. I say the PFR'r will call with JJ+ and AK and maybe AQs, not much else. However because he raised preflop, how much more likely is he to have one of those hands? I dont have a good answer to that. I'd say he's raising his top 10% hands preflop, which is fairly standard. But this is where I kind of get stuck and go "Whatever, say he calls 30% of the time, that sounds reasonable, and besides if he calls less it can only help you not hurt you"

Against JJ+/AK we're a 60/40 dog

Edit: Fixed equation [again]
(.70*15)+.30[(.40*71)-(.60*56)] = +$8.9 (someone check that math plz? I'm well known for being an idiot...) Which is a +EV bet

Obviously this ignores the second player in the pot but its pretty unlikely he has AA/KK here, so I think we can ignore him as even if he calls I think we'd be ahead or flipping.

I worked with NWNewell via AIM on this hand for quite a while (thanks dood you rock) and he ran through the calcs with me and found that we don't even need to worry about how often we'll win when called if villain calls less than 20% of the time (that is, even if we lost every time we were called it would still be +EV)

So in hindsight I think its very clear that shoving is a better play, even though it seems to be a pretty big overbet and that you'll only get called by good hands. It doesnt matter, its hugely +EV.

/long way to say the obvious, but i think this is going to be a situation that presents itself fairly commonly. Ideally, we should run the math for when a 10%ish PFR'r raises pre, gets a LP coldcaller and we have AK. Should we shove? I have to go to class but I'll try and answer that when I get back with an EV calc.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 11-09-2007, 05:35 PM #9 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
That EV calc would be... (assuming a 4x preflop raiser, a cold caller, and we shove 50bb)

(.70*8)+.30[(.40*58)-(.60*50)]= +3.56

Still a +EV shove, and thats assuming we're getting called pretty often by pretty good hands.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
|~|ypermegachi
Old 11-11-2007, 01:16 AM #10 (permalink)  
|~|ypermegachi's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|~|ypermegachi
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
That EV calc would be... (assuming a 4x preflop raiser, a cold caller, and we shove 50bb)

(.70*8)+.30[(.40*58)-(.60*50)]= +3.56

Still a +EV shove, and thats assuming we're getting called pretty often by pretty good hands.
[sarcasm]risking 50bb to win 3.56bb isn't high variance at all!![/sarcasm]
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 11-11-2007, 01:46 AM #11 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
I'm not saying its the correct move, I'm saying it's at the least +EV if you're not sure what the correct move is.

Besides. We really shouldn't care about variance, we care about profit, and frankly the easier it comes the better. I played LHE scraping out 1.5bb/100 for a living for christ's sake. Hell, you wrote it yourself - remember how much fun the swings were when you were little?

HAND 5 This is IMO about as tough as it gets playing a half stack. Youve bloated the pot with a good hand and an overcard flops. Yawn.

Villain sucks. Running like 65/15 and he's shorter than even I am.

50NL (yes, dropped down because I want to be way overbankrolled because the variance is indeed high.)

GotNoSteerin: posts big blind $0.50
Dealt to GotNoSteerin [ Qs Qh ]
Linguini: calls
johnnymo: calls
jvick184: folds
dhstylez: folds
GotNoSteerin: raises to $2.50 Mistake #1. I'm in the BB with two limpers, this should be atleast 7x and since they suck at poker I could probably get away with 8x.
Linguini: folds
johnnymo: calls
*** FLOP *** [ Js, Kc, 8h ] Pot is $6ish.
GotNoSteerin: bets $4
johnnymo: calls
*** TURN *** [ 4s ] Pot is $14ish.
GotNoSteerin: is all in (villain has $13 behind and I cover)
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
|~|ypermegachi
Old 11-11-2007, 03:57 AM #12 (permalink)  
|~|ypermegachi's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|~|ypermegachi
heh, yes i indeed wrote that swings were fun! weeeeeeeee! personally, i avoid making thin vbets and thin calls, bluffs, etc. because even though a play might be +EV, i will forgo it to keep my sanity from the corresponding swings.

of course, do this too much and you won't move up past 200NL, or you'll be a bot grinding out 1ptbb/100 and relying on rakeback for profit.

as for hand 5, yeah that's as tough as it gets. i find it harder to play as a shortstack than as a full stack here. the implied threat makes laying down queens here a lot easier with a full stack. but with a shortstack you find yourself in a position of damned if you do and damned if you don't, so you just push and hope for the best.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 11-11-2007, 04:16 AM #13 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Doesnt really matter my stack in hand 5. Villain is even shorter, so what would you do as a full stack? Just put him in? I kinda want to c/rai somewhere because I think he'll bluff with more hands than he'll call with...
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
|~|ypermegachi
Old 11-11-2007, 05:05 PM #14 (permalink)  
|~|ypermegachi's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|~|ypermegachi
whoops, missed that point. yeah, as a full stack i would put him all in and hope for the best.
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 11-11-2007, 05:33 PM #15 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
i dont see what is tough about hand 5. maybe i'm a dingbat, but if he is shorter than you, you put him in here. if he had the K, as an even shorter player, he would have raised your flop bet, imo.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 11-11-2007, 07:16 PM #16 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Hand #6

villain is 26/15 but thats about all i know of him.

jnd50: posts small blind $0.25
GotNoSteerin: posts big blind $0.50
Dealt to GotNoSteerin [ 9s 9c ]
DenV: folds
teampandt: calls
JohnBasedow: calls
flaxtonchick: folds
jnd50: folds
GotNoSteerin: checks meh
*** FLOP *** [ 3h, 6h, 7d ]
GotNoSteerin: bets $1.75
teampandt: calls
JohnBasedow: raises to $3.50
GotNoSteerin: is all in Standard or c/rai the turn?
teampandt: folds
JohnBasedow is left to act.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 11-12-2007, 05:41 PM #17 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
personally, i like it. i dont want to see another card w/ such a vulnerable overpair. i cant see him calling you unless: 1) he has another overpair, 2) made straight, 3) set, 4) big draw or combo, and i guess 5) two pair.

that sounds like a lot, but its a limped pot...anything is out there. i like using your FE to push him off or keep him from chasing overcards...which is where my thoughts go backwards, as you want these to chase. you are 70/30 over random hands...which is not too much wider than what would complete the small blind, imo. but, the main issue is how vulnerable your 99 is to T+ on the turn. so, i still like the AI.

however, against a sb, i like a raise pf here. that may help you cut out complete crap like 73o. and he has crap pf here, or he would have tried to steal your blind.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-12-2007, 06:31 PM #18 (permalink)  
IowaSkinsFan's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enoughIowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Hand #6

villain is 26/15 but thats about all i know of him.

jnd50: posts small blind $0.25
GotNoSteerin: posts big blind $0.50
Dealt to GotNoSteerin [ 9s 9c ]
DenV: folds
teampandt: calls
JohnBasedow: calls
flaxtonchick: folds
jnd50: folds
GotNoSteerin: checks meh
*** FLOP *** [ 3h, 6h, 7d ]
GotNoSteerin: bets $1.75
teampandt: calls
JohnBasedow: raises to $3.50
GotNoSteerin: is all in Standard or c/rai the turn?
teampandt: folds
JohnBasedow is left to act.
given your stack size i think not raising preflop is criminal.

flop seems like a fine line.
Check out the new blog!!!
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
Bbickes Old 06-02-2012, 08:10 PM    Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:04 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.