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Grim spot vs reg, 3-6.

  
 
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ATOTHEC101
Old 01-31-2010, 07:08 PM     Post subject: Grim spot vs reg, 3-6. #1 (permalink)  
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Villain in this hand is a competent 2/4 and 3/6 reg, we've battled in the past, a decent amount being hu and he's mostly gotten the better of me, at 6 max (filtered) he runs at 25/21 with a 3.7 overall af, 4.1 on flop, 3.3 on turn, 3.3 on river. Is the river a fold? It's $639 more for me to call into a $2044 pot, his river timing was basically 5 or 6 seconds before jamming the river.

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Hero (CO) ($1341.35)
Button ($1865.90)
SB ($591.90)
BB ($1854.35)
UTG ($762)
MP ($669)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A
2 folds, Hero bets $18, 2 folds, BB calls $12

Flop: ($39) 6, Q, 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $30, BB raises to $96, Hero calls $66

Turn: ($231) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $178, Hero calls $178

River: ($587) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $411, BB raises to $1562.35 (All-In), Hero...?
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pocketfours
Old 01-31-2010, 07:32 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Nice river bet sicko
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pocketfours
Old 01-31-2010, 07:42 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Lolsnapcall comes to mind, but since Rich doesn't like snapcalls I've got to suggest that you time it down and call on the very last second.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 01-31-2010, 07:51 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 You're river bet is just so so so bad.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 01-31-2010, 07:56 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Since you're not trying to induce.

He definitely has missed straight draws in his checking range, is he sick enough to bluff them? I bet he can have Q9 and 69 in his range pre just cause you're deep. Idk what to say though id never bet the river here unless to induce so if you're not calling you just wasted a bunch of money.
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meeloche
Old 01-31-2010, 08:25 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Don't really have much to add, agree with #2 and p4. I don't know how he try's to bluff you with your river betsize given your gonna be getting such a good price on a call.



 
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Ravageur
Old 02-01-2010, 03:12 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I agree with previous replies about the betsize but unlike them this seems like a fold to me. I mean if he really shoving over that bet with J10/KJ?
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pocketfours
Old 02-01-2010, 04:24 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 OP are you posting this hand for someone else? This shit doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Who do you think you are fooling here, it is absolutely crystally clear that you wouldn't bet the river if you were planning to fold to a shove, so WTF?
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Alexos
Old 02-01-2010, 05:01 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 ???

Bet/folding is the nuts, except vs sickos.
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nutsinho
Old 02-01-2010, 06:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 and also when the opponent will checkcall with no hands in his range
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pocketfours
Old 02-01-2010, 06:55 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexos
Bet/folding is the nuts, except vs sickos.
Cmon guys stop tilting me what the hell are you talking about?
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gabe
Old 02-01-2010, 07:34 AM #12 (permalink)  
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so u guys are gonna bluff JT here and check AA?
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pocketfours
Old 02-01-2010, 07:41 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
so u guys are gonna bluff JT here and check AA?
I absolutely love the bet, but I'm not folding to this shove ever.
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pocketfours
Old 02-01-2010, 07:55 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
so u guys are gonna bluff JT here and check AA?
Against really competent players like yourself I would check behind AA and not have JT in my range by the river. At midstakes I think a b/c in this spot is cool.
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Alexos
Old 02-01-2010, 08:00 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexos
Bet/folding is the nuts, except vs sickos.
Cmon guys stop tilting me what the hell are you talking about?
It's true.... but he could be a sicko, idk him.
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Marshall28
Old 02-01-2010, 08:30 AM #16 (permalink)  
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I'm curious to what you think exactly is c/r you on the flop, barreling you on the turn then c/c'ing this river? Especially w/ the size you made. You rep hands like 78 and JT but so does he... which makes me want to call.

But the thing is, like, what hands are going to check this river to raise it for value? If he has a hand like Q9 or 66 it makes so much more sense for him to bet like 160 on this river in order to squeak out some value from KQ/AQ/KK/AA, and give you an opportunity to bluff shove your draws that missed like JT/78. Or instead of 160, something close to the size of the pot to rep a 78 or JT hoping you will call down w/ a Q.

Like others said, you just have to call this raise if you're making this bet on the river. Even a smaller bet on this river does nothing for you because it's very hard for you to rep a hand better than 1pr that will have a VERY hard time calling a shove if villain is smart enough to know that. It's sort of a leveling game I guess, and if he usually gets the best of you, you really shouldn't have made this bet, this is probably why he gets the best of you... if you make bets that clearly will induce without realizing you're doing it.
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IV Geoffrey
Old 02-01-2010, 08:07 PM #17 (permalink)  

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I prefer a check or a bet call not a bet fold
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ATOTHEC101
Old 02-01-2010, 10:31 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Ok well this is a switcharoo hand that I posted on 2+2 except from the point of view of my opponent. Villain is oldjude a good reg who plays alot of higher stakes hu. My play is a fairly mega brain fart/epic spew but thought it would be somewhat interesting to post regardless. It did get him too tank down to his last bit of time bank which got my hopes up.

My thoughts were basically as follows: The river is a fairly optimistic attempt at bluffing, I was v betting most rivers but I felt the 9 hit him a decent amount so I check as qj- will check back and the only bluffs I beat are basically floated flop str8 draws that picked up hearts on the turn. Thus when he bets I feel his range is qk+/bluffs, so I jam as my line looks ridic strong and I'm basically never bluffing and he never expects me to bluff due to the odds he'll be getting. Obviously I'm only really repping 66 with 69/q9s being debatable whether I'd call pre or if I did whether I'd bet river myself due to the limited chance of jude having a 9, (same applying to quads.)

I also think my turn sizing is too small and should have made it $194.


$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
FullTiltPoker
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com


Stacks:
UTG RagingWombat ($762)
UTG+1 Black Swan 31 ($669)
CO oldjude ($1,341.35)
BTN BigGOGI ($1,865.90)
SB sdk99 ($591.90)
BB Hero ($1,854.35)


Pre-Flop: ($9, 6 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, oldjude raises to $18, 2 folds, Hero calls $12


Flop: ($39, 2 players)
Hero checks, oldjude bets $30, Hero raises to $96, oldjude calls $66


Turn: ($231, 2 players)
Hero bets $178, oldjude calls $178


River: ($587, 2 players)
Hero checks, oldjude bets $411, Hero goes all-in $1,562.35, oldjude goes all-in $638.35


Final Pot: $3,198.70
oldjude shows

Hero shows


oldjude wins $2,682.70 (net +$1,341.35)

Hero collects $513 (net -$1,341.35)
"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
 
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pocketfours
Old 02-02-2010, 06:47 AM #19 (permalink)  
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 I thought this seemed suspicious.

I won't comment on your play, except to say that on the river
c/c >>>>>>>>>>>>>> c/r, where c/c seems very bad and c/r absolutely horrible.
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Marshall28
Old 02-02-2010, 08:26 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Don't play vs oldjude, he's a boss.
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ATOTHEC101
Old 02-02-2010, 02:24 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
I thought this seemed suspicious.

I won't comment on your play, except to say that on the river
c/c >>>>>>>>>>>>>> c/r, where c/c seems very bad and c/r absolutely horrible.
Yea river def goes c/f>>>>>>c/c>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>c/r.
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nutsinho
Old 02-02-2010, 04:57 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
so u guys are gonna bluff JT here and check AA?
um yeah? i mean i fold turn a % and dont bluff riv another % of the time vs a lot of opponents. there is no way some random reg's range for checking the river could call me profitably
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 02-03-2010, 03:02 AM #23 (permalink)  
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 does anyone think the flop c/r is very borderline?
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pocketfours
Old 02-03-2010, 04:31 AM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbr2intheWorld
does anyone think the flop c/r is very borderline?
Probably like everyone
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ATOTHEC101
Old 02-03-2010, 05:03 AM #25 (permalink)  
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vs Jude I think it's ok, it's not as if he has a tight raising range in the co and he's fairly cally post.
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gabe
Old 02-03-2010, 06:02 AM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
so u guys are gonna bluff JT here and check AA?
um yeah? i mean i fold turn a % and dont bluff riv another % of the time vs a lot of opponents. there is no way some random reg's range for checking the river could call me profitably
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