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bjsaust
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07-13-2009, 06:22 AM
Post subject: Got myself into a tough spot (200nl)
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Early at table, villain is 23/23 with 100% cbet over small sample. Doubt he has any reads on me. I have no reads on him besides the stats.
I choose not to 3bet preflop, usually I do for sure but I dont think it hurts to occasionally flat and be deceptive. Float flop, hit turn well. Again decide on turn I can be more deceptive flatting again and setting up exactly what I did on river which was to represent a missed draw bluffing. I expect him to call me really light because of this, and I can bet larger than usual representing that bluff. Then, umm, he shoves.
No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($277.88)
CO ($249)
Hero (BB) ($200)
Button ($209.25)
SB ($301)
UTG ($207.78)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A , K
1 fold, MP bets $6, 3 folds, Hero calls $4
Flop: ($13) 4, 2 , 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $8.17, Hero calls $8.17
Turn: ($29.34) K (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $18.91, Hero calls $18.91
River: ($67.16) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $50, MP raises $244.80 (All-In), Hero calls $116.92 (All-In)
Total pot: $401
I end up calling because I think usually the value range for shoving here is super tight. He should conclude that I'm either bluffing or not kind of thing and flat with most of his made hands.
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Just playing to improve.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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I don't like your river lead, do you seriously play a FD this way?
Tbh this whole hands looks like FPS to me. 3bet pre almost always, from what ive seen you takes these passive lines very often preflop. Flop is okay, turn is okay, now id rather just c/c or c/r river assuming villain can vbet thin. Why would you not let him barrel you off of a hand, or even vbet worse hands? Do you really expect him to check behind Kx on the river? Most guys would even vbet TT for sure.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
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dislike preflop, hate river call
he's just not bluffing that much
ok he COULD have AK and tries to get value from KQ or something
but that's the smallest part of his range
so his value range here is: AA, 44, 22, 77, KK, A2s
I just think he dumps all of his second barrel bluffs on the river without even thinking of bluffing you here because:
1. draws missed so he might expect you to hero call
2. you're repping Kx and he doesn't expect you to fold it particularly on this board
you're just not getting bluffed here that often
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
Tbh this whole hands looks like FPS to me.
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I wont disagree. Most of it was merging stuff from recent Samoleus BFP vids and an attempt to move beyond really straightforward play, but doesnt mean its a good idea. Just trying to feel for how far/when to do that kind of stuff. Will probably post a few bad hands while I try to work it out. [of course I probably should bare in mind that Samo is a LAG and so has more room for deception].
No, I never play a FD this way, but he doesn't know that.
I dont expect him to vbet Kx as high as I did, but I dont think I'd want to c/r river either, so thought I'd get more value from his showdown hands this way?
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Just playing to improve.
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you can c/c if you don't want to c/r
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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If he value bets I expect more like $40, or even some kind of teaser $25-30, however I think he'll call my $50 bet with his entire v'betting range. Of course I miss out on any triple barrel bluffs in his range.
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Just playing to improve.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
If he value bets I expect more like $40, or even some kind of teaser $25-30, however I think he'll call my $50 bet with his entire v'betting range. Of course I miss out on any triple barrel bluffs in his range.
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if he vbets small and has you beat you also save yourself money
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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There is way more value in c/c or c/r the river than leading. I wouldn't do it with anything here. Floating the flop is pretty spewy as well imo.
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Kid Style
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 59
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
There is way more value in c/c or c/r the river than leading. I wouldn't do it with anything here. Floating the flop is pretty spewy as well imo.
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This one right here. Better to c/c IMO though.
I don't see a problem with floating the flop though. Unless he just doesn't usually CBet on this board (I usually don't). 100% CBet villain, I would probably float too.
But meeloche is right in that this could be a little spewy as well.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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3bet pre, without reads being deceptive isn't worth giving up ev, and you have no reads
c/c river. I would call the shove now though.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
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Floating the flop is pretty spewy as well imo.
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i think on flop if you are c/cing 88 you can c/c this.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I'm fairly sure that IF I dont 3-bet pre then floating is fairly std here. Would take a fairly bad board to just fold AK to a std cbet.
I agree with 3-betting pre and have taken not 3-betting there out of my play with AK.
As played dont c/r just c/c river?
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Just playing to improve.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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1) stop saying floating. floating implies bluff. you c/c flop because your hand strength + implied odds warrants a c/c.
2) yea c/c river unless villain is phil galfond or unless you want to try to get AA to fold.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Is there a short term for 'c/c because I could still be ahead?'.
Thanks guys, he did turn his A high into a bluff, but I had a definate feeling I played bad and got lucky.
I'll keep at it, I'll learn better spots sometime, I promise  .
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Just playing to improve.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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no, there isn't, but if you had 99 would you say you floated the flop?
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Yeah, its just my way of saying I called with an intention to evaluate turn. I guess I sometimes use shorthand terms out of context.
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Just playing to improve.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I think your river bet is too big. If I did lead that big, I'm MORE inclined to fold to a shove.
Quote:
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Thanks guys, he did turn his A high into a bluff, but I had a definate feeling I played bad and got lucky.
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No, he's an online bet/raise monkey and you got him to spew off all of his money to you. This hand is well played, fuck the haters.
I played a bunch of 100NL 6 max to blow off some steam after a hellish run of live cards. Anyway, it seems that half the player field just blasts away aimlessly post-flop and will fire like their entire range when a scare card hits. Easy money.
Probably thought I was some sort of fish given how many pots I opened and how often I just check/called them down mixing in some raises for rebluffs and value.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I think your river bet is too big. If I did lead that big, I'm MORE inclined to fold to a shove.
No, he's an online bet/raise monkey and you got him to spew off all of his money to you. This hand is well played, fuck the haters.
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this and this
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ChokeOnMySho
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20
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so who won this hand lol?
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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without getting crazy fancy with big hands I would at least flat preflop IN POSITION for deception, much easier to play post flop!!
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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i would at least c/c river, c/r is pretty sick nice since no Kx is folding
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I'd prob c/c river, but as played I'm snapping this off.
Whenever you donk into someone you have to recognize the potential of getting raised/jammed much lighter than normally.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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