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Jager
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03-04-2007, 04:41 AM
Post subject: Good Play or Spew???
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Villain is 15/11, no postflop reads. I have him squarely on a bigger PP, but I think he can fold.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
SB ($193)
Hero ($252.15)
UTG ($160)
MP ($324.50)
CO ($224.35)
Button ($199.30)
Preflop: Hero is BB with T , T .
UTG raises to $8, 2 folds, Button calls $8, SB calls $7, Hero calls $6.
Flop: ($32) 3, 2, 8 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $20, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $60, UTG calls $40.
Turn: ($152) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $184.15 (All-In)
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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If you want him to fold I'd bet about 75-80... makes it look like you want him to try to push you off it.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I was looking to bet close to pot, but I figured a push was close enough. Is this bad reasoning?
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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It's o.k. I just think a smaller bet generally looks scarier to tight villains.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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I agree with Genitruc i think a smaller bet like 1/2 the pot would look a lot scarier then an over bet. To a thinking villain a overbet looks vulnerable if he doesn't read to much into it he might think hes got you beat. It really depends on your read of him though, if hes that tight than i dont think it'll matter the size of the bet hes probably folding anyway unless hes got a monster.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
I was looking to bet close to pot, but I figured a push was close enough. Is this bad reasoning?
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It's fine, just think about this stuff on the flop before mindlessly re-raising 3x.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I was rasing for info, I didn't want to squeeze UTG PF I felt he was likely to shove. I was happy to take it down on the flop, I thought he still might push, but if he called I was going to try and take it down on the turn.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
I was rasing for info.
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Then why do you consider this turn decision difficult?
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Would leading the flop here "for info" have much value?
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I'm just not always sure that my thought process in these spots is correct.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
I'm just not always sure that my thought process in these spots is correct.
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I'm not a fan either.
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larsmars
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03-04-2007, 04:18 PM
Post subject: Re: Good Play or Spew???
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#12 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 101
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
no postflop reads.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
I have him squarely on a bigger PP, but I think he can fold.
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He has 92 left and the pot is 152. I wouldn't expect an unknown to fold.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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flop sucks for the same reason my raise against you with the J8 sucks. As a full ring player, I could actually fold this flop to the one bet, but I bet most of you guys would hate to do that.
To me, fold the flop, and call the flop fold the turn are the only plausible lines.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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Or lead the flop. I really like this.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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I think this is spew against most 15/11s, he may fold 99 TT JJ, but not necesarily. I don't like it. Use your hand reading skills in a better spot.
On a side note, TT is probably the WORST possible hand to do this with. If you have a hand like KQ AK QJ, AQ, AJ, this play is much better, as there are less combinations of a big pair out there and you have outs if he calls.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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The turn isnt a big spew IMO, but flop is. I mean personally unless opp is really aggro and if cbetting missed overs on that flop i just c/f.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Aren't you usually bet/3betting the flop with a set?
I guess the turn is OK if you want to rep something like 78s/89s, but it is really a good card for Villain as it makes a set of 8's a little more unlikely.
To me, flop + turn looks like a medium/small pair and I'm calling with most overpairs (esp KK/AA) very often.
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Poker is freedom
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noble007
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 531
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Obviously there is more thinking involved at your level but at .25 I would definitely look you up with an overpair because the way you've played it doesn't seem like a set or trips & seems like an overpair 99/1010 & often a bluff.
Do you usually raise the flop on a non scary board with a set & push the turn when you make a boat, I doubt it, it seems like a play to scare away an overpair not get money out of them.
Do you usually raise the flop when you hit a pair with a suited connector against a tight preflop raiser - maybe, but then do you push when you hit trips & there are no real draws on the board & you put your opponent on an overpair that is already scared of your flop raise?
Again seems like a play to scare away an overpair not get money out of them & so for these reasons if I had an overpair I would look you up.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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Getting people to fold overpairs is almost always spew IMO- unless we are playing much higher.
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
On a side note, TT is probably the WORST possible hand to do this with. If you have a hand like KQ AK QJ, AQ, AJ, this play is much better, as there are less combinations of a big pair out there and you have outs if he calls.
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This is important advice.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
attempting to get people to fold overpairs is almost always spew IMO- unless we are playing much higher.
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I think this what you meant to say. If they fold then it isn't really spew. After playing this hand I felt I was spewing IF he didn't fold, and I feel that this is not a solid regular strategy eventhough it worked this time.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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15/11's usually aren't good players also, and they aren't necessarily nitty postflop either.
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