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dalecooper
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12-13-2005, 04:45 PM
Post subject: Good, bad, indifferent?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Results in white. Joanjoan had just joined the table.
***** Hand History for Game 3194151593 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, December 13, 12:32:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 64978 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 5: wozo30 ( $70.50 )
Seat 2: stressball10 ( $44.25 )
Seat 6: gryfyn71 ( $52.70 )
Seat 3: habidasher ( $51.65 )
Seat 1: joanjoan65 ( $28 )
habidasher posts small blind [$0.25].
wozo30 posts big blind [$0.50].
joanjoan65 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Kh Ac ]
gryfyn71 folds.
joanjoan65 raises [$3.50].
stressball10 raises [$30].
habidasher folds.
wozo30 folds.
joanjoan65 folds.
stressball10 does not show cards.
stressball10 wins $34.75
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Glad to see fine young strapping lads like yourself welcoming a fine young lady with a short-buy to the table.
This is so not about this hand...
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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I don't think i get it. A better hand is calling and a worse one is folding. Is this play just establishing your image as the table boss?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
A better hand is calling and a worse one is folding.
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LIES!!!!
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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I like it alot.
 rgasm:
WELCOME TO THE TABLE U R MAH BITCH! RESPECT MAH AUTHORITY!
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Pingviini
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,090
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Shorties love to gamble with AJ/AQ, there are a lot hands incl. PP's that might be calling. Also, great for image. But fnordy might be right, do you two have a history?? 
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"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pingviini
do you two have a history?
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They're certainly building one on the right foot...
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
I don't think i get it. A better hand is calling and a worse one is folding. Is this play just establishing your image as the table boss?
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Not just about that, no. Although I do love my image as the table boss. But 6 max experience tells me a few things:
1. Short stacks raising an eye-popping number of big blinds have comically wide hand ranges.
2. Any player raising large on their first hand at a table is generally full of shit and trying to establish him/herself as the aggressor. This player may have some kind of real hand, but probably not one worth that kind of raise. KQ/KJ/AJ/AT/Ax/any pocket pair would not surprise me.
3. Short stacks who pump in 1/7th of their chips pre-flop are often not folding to any re-raise, no matter what they raised with in the first place.
I think AK is a probable favorite against this player's range of hands, and I think there's a *very* good chance I'm getting called by a worse hand (maybe a dominated hand) here, or getting into a coinflip. If the player folds, or I win a coinflip, or even if I lose a coinflip... all good for my table image. And as Fnord says, this player and I get off on just the right foot against each other.
On top of all that, a fold here nets me $5, which is more than I'd make if I raised AK and got one caller who folded to a continuation bet on the flop. So I'm not unhappy with that result. And if it makes the table think I've got a screw loose... excellent.
Incidentally, two hands later, a different player raised with AK and joanjoan went all in with pocket sevens. Got called and lost. Pity.
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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me likey. I read recently that one of the biggest problems people have with AK is not re-raising enough to give your opponent a good chance to fold.
I also love people who think short-stacks are inferior players, and sterotype their play just because they buy in short... just love it...
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by storm75m
I also love people who think short-stacks are inferior players
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They usually are. I see nothing wrong with making the most out of the limited information available.
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by storm75m
I also love people who think short-stacks are inferior players
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They usually are. I see nothing wrong with making the most out of the limited information available. |
And that's one main reason I continue to buy in short.
hmmm. on second thought, maybe I'm inferior and just don't know it. 
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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The fact is, storm - and I do not use the word "fact" lightly here - most short stacks are indeed bad players. You can especially tell this if they buy in for funny amounts like $23.52 (this is usually all the money left in their account). Moreover, you can quickly differentiate between short stacks you need to avoid and short stacks you should be actively headhunting. Within two orbits, the number of hands a short stack plays and the number of times that player raises - or better yet, calls other people's raises - will tell you what you need to know. But absent that information, I *always* proceed with the assumption that they are bad players, at least in 6 max games at the 25-100 level.
Typical hand: I get AQ, raise, short stack calls me. I get a queen high flop (let's say QJ6) with two clubs (I don't have a club). I bet out, short stack raises all in. What should I do? Well: facing a raise here from a normal player, I might start to consider that he has a set, two pair, or a dangerous combo draw like T9 of clubs. I might fold. Against a short stack, I do not consider these possibilities. It is way too likely that he is bluffing with a flush draw, a weak queen, a weak jack, or even a middle pocket pair (I've seen all of these, repeatedly). I will call every time and almost always get the best of it. This kind of hand is so ridiculously and consistently profitable for me that I wouldn't even DREAM of changing the way I play it. And if that means occasionally, accidentally paying off someone like you - so be it. Net EV is still ++++++.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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No mention of the two people yet to act behind you?
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
The fact is, storm - and I do not use the word "fact" lightly here - most short stacks are indeed bad players. You can especially tell this if they buy in for funny amounts like $23.52 (this is usually all the money left in their account). Moreover, you can quickly differentiate between short stacks you need to avoid and short stacks you should be actively headhunting. Within two orbits, the number of hands a short stack plays and the number of times that player raises - or better yet, calls other people's raises - will tell you what you need to know. But absent that information, I *always* proceed with the assumption that they are bad players, at least in 6 max games at the 25-100 level.
Typical hand: I get AQ, raise, short stack calls me. I get a queen high flop (let's say QJ6) with two clubs (I don't have a club). I bet out, short stack raises all in. What should I do? Well: facing a raise here from a normal player, I might start to consider that he has a set, two pair, or a dangerous combo draw like T9 of clubs. I might fold. Against a short stack, I do not consider these possibilities. It is way too likely that he is bluffing with a flush draw, a weak queen, a weak jack, or even a middle pocket pair (I've seen all of these, repeatedly). I will call every time and almost always get the best of it. This kind of hand is so ridiculously and consistently profitable for me that I wouldn't even DREAM of changing the way I play it. And if that means occasionally, accidentally paying off someone like you - so be it. Net EV is still ++++++.
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That's cool, and I'm in no way offended, I just like to use this bit of information to my advantage... Short stacks don't get very much respect, and I love it. Any "dis"-information I can give... stressball10 on party... I'll try to sneak up on you sometime, lol.
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
No mention of the two people yet to act behind you?
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They already belonged to me. 
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by storm75m
That's cool, and I'm in no way offended, I just like to use this bit of information to my advantage... Short stacks don't get very much respect, and I love it. Any "dis"-information I can give... stressball10 on party... I'll try to sneak up on you sometime, lol.
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It's perfectly legit to use it to your advantage. It doesn't affect how I play at all, though. If I get a read on someone that they are a smarter, trickier short stack player - maybe one of those career short stackers that are floating around - I play them like anybody else from that point forward. But first hand at a table with me, they better have the goods, because I give them little respect.
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
It's perfectly legit to use it to your advantage. It doesn't affect how I play at all, though. If I get a read on someone that they are a smarter, trickier short stack player - maybe one of those career short stackers that are floating around - I play them like anybody else from that point forward. But first hand at a table with me, they better have the goods, because I give them little respect.
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I promise to do my bestest fishy impersonation.... I actually don't buy in super short like some, just 1/2 the max. But if I find you I'll be sure to buy in for $23.52... and go all-in on a flush draw board with my set.
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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