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Good aggression factor numbers?

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Clar17y

11-08-2007, 02:33 AM Post subject: Good aggression factor numbers?

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2007

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I've just looked at my PT and my aggression factor is huge oO

Flop AF: 3.89
Turn AF: 2.84
River AF: 2.28

For a total 3.12
(over 4.5k hands)
Is that just spew town or are these kind of numbers ok?

Also position matters a lot in 6-max obviously, so what should %VPIP be UTG -> Button?
I know good VPIP/PFR is in the area 25/15, which co-incidently is exactly what i'm running atm, but my UTG is too high and BTN too low.

Problem with the latter i think is because the site i play on is so fishy, it's hard to open on the button as others limp or raise first.
If there is a limper before me and i'm sitting in CO/BTN with a hand i *would* have raised had that guy not limped, should i raise it anyway?

Cheers for any replies,
Clar

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daven

11-08-2007, 02:58 AM

#2 (permalink)

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ok, those aggression factors are not HUGE. They're normal, except the river is a little high (dunno, if your W$WSD is >53% it's probably ok)

As for what a good VPIP/PFR is, almost any set of numbers can be good. People can play very different styles and both win well.
Personally I like 20-15 preflop. About 12-12 UTG and 26-x on the button.
if there is a limper, raise if you would have raised your hand opening from their position. Also raise if limper has a higher VPIP than you.

PapalRage

11-08-2007, 03:01 AM

#3 (permalink)

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when a player limps in front of you, that is all the more reason to raise. often you isolate them when you are in position and take the initiative in the hand. your VPIP should be increasing as you move from UTG to the button to take advantage of better position. you shouldnt really be worrying about getting your numbers to 'look perfect' because you should be adapting your game to take advantage of your opponents mistakes. as long as you keep yourself away from the extremes you should be able to make money from fish.

if you think you are spewing, post some hands.

ndultimate.

biondino

11-08-2007, 01:11 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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LOL my river AF for this month is 3 and that's the lowest it's been in living memory. I either value bet, value raise or block bet almost every time, I can't help it! My Won at SD is only 47%, sigh.

daven

11-08-2007, 05:23 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

LOL my river AF for this month is 3 and that's the lowest it's been in living memory. I either value bet, value raise or block bet almost every time, I can't help it! My Won at SD is only 47%, sigh.

Leak

Chopper

11-08-2007, 08:33 PM

#6 (permalink)

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as for AF, there is no "ideal" number, to my knowledge. several factors affect it.

vpip is a big one. if you are very loose, you need to do a lot more raising to keep a high AF.

conversly, i vpip of 5 doesnt need to try hard to have an AF of infinity. he's not in a lot of pots w/o AA.

its all yin and yang. if you want more substantial advice, post the rest of your numbers, too. give cbet frequencies. stealing blinds? 2 barreling? with what?

it goes a lot deeper than just the number.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Clar17y

11-08-2007, 09:05 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

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Posts: 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

Any good? :P lol
Smallish sample but it probably gives an insight to the way i'm playing,

Clar

Chopper

11-08-2007, 09:18 PM

#8 (permalink)

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whats your winrate over this sample? i would suspect its pretty decent.

i cant see anything immediately. your AF is sufficiently high for the hands you play, imo. look at your cbet %, though. to me, you cbet a lot...and pfr a lot...meaning, to me, you are betting a lot of flops and turns to "defend your marginal starting hands."

its not necessarily a bad thing. we all need to continually pressure our opponents...thats what makes the mistakes. just dont make any yourself along the way.

which it doesnt look like you do too often. your W$SD is just over 50%. i like higher 50's...like 56-57. but, thats me...a nit. with your wider range, i would say you are off to a decent start.

ask some of the LAGs here what they think, though, and i bet they think youre a nit/TAG. i swear i dont see how they run at a 40+ W$WSF...but they do.

they can give you better advice, imo.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

sauce123

11-08-2007, 11:18 PM

#9 (permalink)

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stats dont matter that much

try to get a 50% won$wsf thats rly cool

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Chopper

11-09-2007, 12:07 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

stats dont matter that much

try to get a 50% won$wsf thats rly cool

no offense, but why? if stats dont matter much.

again, i get what you are saying. and, you are coming from a different (much higher) level...philosophically. i get that, too. in fact, i have a ton of respect for your more "conceptual" posts. i'm also not denying that stats are overrated.

i just wanted to point out the contradiction.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

sauce123

11-09-2007, 12:34 AM

#11 (permalink)

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its rly cool cause aba does it and he makes a lot of money

and winning pots is sick

the only two important stats r written in color tho

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Vi-Zer0Skill

11-09-2007, 01:00 AM

#12 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
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Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

LOL my river AF for this month is 3 and that's the lowest it's been in living memory. I either value bet, value raise or block bet almost every time, I can't help it! My Won at SD is only 47%, sigh.

Leak

but why do you think that? A river AF of three (at least on the surface) doesn't strike me as being a problem whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

sauce123

11-09-2007, 03:44 AM

#13 (permalink)

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mahatma has like a river AF of six and wins at poker

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

noble007

11-09-2007, 05:44 PM

#14 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006

Location: London

Posts: 531

Stats dont matter that much but Sbrugby's (big winner obv.)
is around 24/20 - 26/22

flop aggr: 5.5
turn : 4.5
river : 3.5

He reccommends at least 543, however I struggle to be this aggressive
esp. on river at low stakes where fish who overpaid on every street and missed love to bluff river in pos.
Im around 3.39 (overall)
Trying to get my turn aggression up at the moment (2.3) definitely losing a lot of value not betting some hands there.
(Also you dont need to play so many hands 26/22 at lower stakes
TAG 16/12 - 20/15 is probably better.)

biondino

11-09-2007, 10:12 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Okay, tell me if I'm wrong here regarding river betting:

In an ideal world, we:

- Bet/raise hands when we're ahead or where we feel we can bluff villain off a better hand;

- Fold hands where pots odds (based on our estimated winning %age vs villain's range) are not good enough & we don't feel a bluff will work often enough to make up the shortfall;

- Call hands where we believe we are behind but not far enough behind against villain's range for pot odds to oblige us to fold.

Basic logic tells me that the latter will not be a common occurrence. Unless we're really laggy, or regularly seeing multiway rivers, we should be ahead roughly half the time, and we'll certainly be in the folding zone a decent amount of time too. Does this make sense?

noble007

11-10-2007, 12:50 AM

#16 (permalink)

Flush

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Location: London

Posts: 531

I also call rivers where I induce a bluff by checking oop. I know I am mostly ahead and that villian (with reads) was most likely on a draw so if I bet he folds so I get more value by check calling a bluff

daven

11-11-2007, 04:58 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

I can't help it! My Won at SD is only 47%, sigh.

Leak

but why do you think that? A river AF of three (at least on the surface) doesn't strike me as being a problem whatsoever.

The river AF isn't the leak. Being aggressive on every river (rather than c/f sometimes) is a leak. And a W$WSD of 47% is another leak.

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