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GatorJH
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12-23-2008, 05:09 AM
Post subject: Good 4bet spot?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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villain had a 25% 3bet through 25 hands. Do you 4bet here and if so how much?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($101.50)
Hero (Button) ($98.15)
SB ($429.55)
BB ($143)
UTG ($100)
MP ($268.10)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 2 , 2
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB calls $3.50, BB raises to $18, Hero ????
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
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what is "I should find a new table" Alex
also, if you 4bet I believe it has to be a shove
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
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that's a pretty hefty 4bet there Mr. Suspenders. Would you 4bet shove here?
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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kmind
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*Post below
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GatorJH
that's a pretty hefty 4bet there Mr. Suspenders. Would you 4bet shove here?
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Oh I missed crucial stack sizes. But I mean what size can you 4bet here without it being all-in. Really silly to 4bet any size less than an all-in.
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
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since I am certainly not set hunting then yes as a bluff
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
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But you are playing for stacks here with a hand like 22. With a hand like A4o we have blockers and less equity than 22 IIRC. But I mean I don't think we can really 4bet/fold much given stacks + pot.
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
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so 100BB's deep this is either a shove or fold against a villain who has 3bet 25% of his hands over a short sample size?
Just out of curiosity what hands, if any, would you 4bet against the villain?
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
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btw, I agree that A4s is a better hand than 22 here.
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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also, opening 4x otb is just plain bad
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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When he makes it 18 you cannot 4bet and fold b/c of pot-odds+your equity against his 5bet jamming range. This is why it's great to make it 3bbs on the button, more maneuverability pf and post-flop.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
698,620,032 games 0.563 secs 1,240,888,156 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.021% 65.72% 00.30% 459135264 2101188.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 33.979% 33.68% 00.30% 235282392 2101188.00 { 22 }
---
390,405,312 games 0.453 secs 861,821,880 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.860% 67.64% 01.22% 264070572 4761492.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 31.140% 29.92% 01.22% 116811756 4761492.00 { A4s }
---
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
also, opening 4x otb is just plain bad
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Actually I am not sure why I did that as I normally raise 3x from the BU and SB
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
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A4o!!!!!!!
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.
As for the hand it's probably a thin shove. Not sure why we are looking for a new table. if hes 3betting 25%+ OOP vs our BU and CO opens we are going to get his monies.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
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just a commentary on having an over-aggressive player on our left
(esp. if OP thinks we can 4bet/fold here....)
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mcatdog
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Not shoving here would just be silly. Why would you even raise the button with 22 with this clown in the blinds, unless you're going to 4-bet in his face? It's probably +EV to shove any two cards here.
Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.
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bode
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Straight Flush
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Quote:
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its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.
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i raise 3x bb everywhere and 4x bb in the sb. standard? 200nl btw.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
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i still 4x from first 2 spots, 3x CO and BTN. thats std imo
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
It's probably +EV to shove any two cards here.
Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.
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This is what I wanted to confirm with my original post and although I didn't shove I did 4bet and villain folded.
Also a huge thanks the Mr. Suspenders for turning on that magic light for me related to the overall effect something as small as a 3xBB raise vs a 4xbb raise can have on something as simple as pre-flop betting.
Although I haven't done the math it seems like, in general, any 4bet would have to be a shove unless both hero and villain are fairly deep stacked.
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.
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i just got tired of you correcting me
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.
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i raise 3x bb everywhere and 4x bb in the sb. standard? 200nl btw. |
I 3x from utg-bu currently unless there is a stationy donk at the table. I think 4xing early is fine/good at low-mid stakes. From sb i open 4x vs tough loose aggressive players and 3x vs others.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
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ridiculous question of the day: against someone who is going to 3bet like a monkey from the blinds would we rather minraise or limp the button with hands like 22-66?
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Sorry to hijack a bit but this is something I've been thinking about.
Do you guys find that 4x from the sb vs agro players reduces their 3bet%? All I can think of would be negatives for 4xing it like bloating the pot oop give villain more money to win with 3 bet and making our 4 betting less profitable cause we commit ourselves much easier.
Fill me in on the pro's?
(This is when it's folded around to hero in the sb)
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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aww in or aww out imo
i don t mind either
flip a coin
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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