Good 4bet spot?

what is "I should find a new table" Alex

also, if you 4bet I believe it has to be a shove

that's a pretty hefty 4bet there Mr. Suspenders. Would you 4bet shove here?

*Post below

Originally Posted by GatorJH

that's a pretty hefty 4bet there Mr. Suspenders. Would you 4bet shove here?

Oh I missed crucial stack sizes. But I mean what size can you 4bet here without it being all-in. Really silly to 4bet any size less than an all-in.

since I am certainly not set hunting then yes as a bluff

But you are playing for stacks here with a hand like 22. With a hand like A4o we have blockers and less equity than 22 IIRC. But I mean I don't think we can really 4bet/fold much given stacks + pot.

so 100BB's deep this is either a shove or fold against a villain who has 3bet 25% of his hands over a short sample size?

Just out of curiosity what hands, if any, would you 4bet against the villain?

btw, I agree that A4s is a better hand than 22 here.

also, opening 4x otb is just plain bad

When he makes it 18 you cannot 4bet and fold b/c of pot-odds+your equity against his 5bet jamming range. This is why it's great to make it 3bbs on the button, more maneuverability pf and post-flop.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

698,620,032 games 0.563 secs 1,240,888,156 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.021% 65.72% 00.30% 459135264 2101188.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 33.979% 33.68% 00.30% 235282392 2101188.00 { 22 }


---

390,405,312 games 0.453 secs 861,821,880 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.860% 67.64% 01.22% 264070572 4761492.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 31.140% 29.92% 01.22% 116811756 4761492.00 { A4s }


---

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

also, opening 4x otb is just plain bad

Actually I am not sure why I did that as I normally raise 3x from the BU and SB

A4o!!!!!!!

its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.

As for the hand it's probably a thin shove. Not sure why we are looking for a new table. if hes 3betting 25%+ OOP vs our BU and CO opens we are going to get his monies.

just a commentary on having an over-aggressive player on our left

(esp. if OP thinks we can 4bet/fold here....)

Not shoving here would just be silly. Why would you even raise the button with 22 with this clown in the blinds, unless you're going to 4-bet in his face? It's probably +EV to shove any two cards here.

Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.

Originally Posted by nutsinho

its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.

i raise 3x bb everywhere and 4x bb in the sb. standard? 200nl btw.

i still 4x from first 2 spots, 3x CO and BTN. thats std imo

Originally Posted by mcatdog

It's probably +EV to shove any two cards here.

Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.

This is what I wanted to confirm with my original post and although I didn't shove I did 4bet and villain folded.

Also a huge thanks the Mr. Suspenders for turning on that magic light for me related to the overall effect something as small as a 3xBB raise vs a 4xbb raise can have on something as simple as pre-flop betting.

Although I haven't done the math it seems like, in general, any 4bet would have to be a shove unless both hero and villain are fairly deep stacked.

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.

i just got tired of you correcting me

Originally Posted by bode

Originally Posted by nutsinho

its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.

i raise 3x bb everywhere and 4x bb in the sb. standard? 200nl btw.

I 3x from utg-bu currently unless there is a stationy donk at the table. I think 4xing early is fine/good at low-mid stakes. From sb i open 4x vs tough loose aggressive players and 3x vs others.

ridiculous question of the day: against someone who is going to 3bet like a monkey from the blinds would we rather minraise or limp the button with hands like 22-66?

Sorry to hijack a bit but this is something I've been thinking about.

Do you guys find that 4x from the sb vs agro players reduces their 3bet%? All I can think of would be negatives for 4xing it like bloating the pot oop give villain more money to win with 3 bet and making our 4 betting less profitable cause we commit ourselves much easier.

Fill me in on the pro's?

(This is when it's folded around to hero in the sb)

aww in or aww out imo

i don t mind either

flip a coin