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AnTman_69
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02-03-2009, 11:46 PM
Post subject: Give up the pot or ?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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Vil is 19/15/3, My image is tight (playing 15/11 3 atm after 40 hands)
cbet % 80. No rock solid reads, jst know that he's half decent and hes a reg. My original plan was to double any Club and give up if it was a blank, but i couldnt help myself.
His range after calling turn is AK/Q/j and flush draws. Sets definitely are raising at some point no? Any ways..my quesstion is, after setting up a PSB(or 3/4 watevs) for the riv, am i commited to bluffing at this pot on the riv?
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG Akula1337 ($98.30)
UTG+1 Skumdene ($41.75)
CO JoshhhM ($115.65)
BTN Moe1564 ($21.10)
SB Brathähnchen ($15.40)
BB Hero ($56.25)
Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is BB  
2 folds, JoshhhM raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50
Flop:    ($4.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, JoshhhM bets $3, Hero raises to $9.50, JoshhhM calls $6.50
Turn:  ($23.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $10.50, JoshhhM calls $10.50
River:  ($44.25, 2 players)
Hero
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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what do u expect him to fold when u bet like 40% of pot on turn
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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AnTman_69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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I see your point. But I wanted to set up a plausible riv shove with the smallish turn bet. Are you suggesting bet turn bigger, or give up on turn and be done.
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Andypandy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middle of Norway
Posts: 154
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I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.
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Larsmars: "I folded Aces today, I can't remember last time I did it, it must have been like half a year ago."
Andypandy: "Preflop??"
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Is it of any real importance to our flop decision that we have the K ?
(i.e. that we still have outs when called when we barrel the turn, as we always do......or something)
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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If you bet so small on the turn to set up a river shove why wouldn't you then shove the river? I don't think he will fold the ace up until this river spot but I think shoving the river is your best chance to get him to fold. Your line reeks of a draw and given that I don't know how often he's folding an ace.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Trying to bluff people off top pair at 50NL is usually not good.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andypandy
I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,217
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I think that turn bet not only sets up a river shove - but also sets up a river call from him since it looks so damn weak.
Good line to take if you have the nuts though!
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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You dont need to win every hand.
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Just playing to improve.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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He isn't folding an ace. Your range is probably very unbalanced here. Do you ever flat AT out of the BB? Your really only repping 55 and draws. I fold the flop.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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AnTman_69
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
He isn't folding an ace. Your range is probably very unbalanced here. Do you ever flat AT out of the BB? Your really only repping 55 and draws. I fold the flop.
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Mm yeah your right. I need to think more about my perceived range, without leveling myself to hard. Thanx
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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I like to float this flop. You have added equity w/ your gutter, plus your K/Q will be clean the times he holds a small pair.
It's really hard to get credit for anything when you raise an A high board, that's the reason I prefer to do it light for value and try to stay away from it as a bluff unless I know my opponent is a first level thinker.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AnTman_69
Quote:
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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz
He isn't folding an ace. Your range is probably very unbalanced here. Do you ever flat AT out of the BB? Your really only repping 55 and draws. I fold the flop.
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Mm yeah your right. I need to think more about my perceived range, without leveling myself to hard. Thanx |
I agree with thiz.
Realize when you're thinking about your perceived range different players will have different perceived ranges for you. Don't just assume they think the same way as you do.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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If we were lawyers and this would be a courtroom you would be disbarred for pulling off this kind of shit.
Of course you have to shove the river, wat!!??? If you didn't shove the river then this will be a very good candidate for misplayed HOTY 2008.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andypandy
I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.
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This is horrible advice.
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kettleofish
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Helllllo Richard
Posts: 333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Of course you have to shove the river, wat!!??? If you didn't shove the river then this will be a very good candidate for misplayed HOTY 2008.
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So bad it would've travelled back in time? 
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There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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LOL I love P4's posts.
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Andypandy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middle of Norway
Posts: 154
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andypandy
I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.
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This is horrible advice. |
Why is the 7 of spades a good card to keep on fireing to? U advocate either bluffing all three streets or just fold the flop? I see lots of thin calldowns with stubborn TP's, especially when the flushdraw missed.
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Larsmars: "I folded Aces today, I can't remember last time I did it, it must have been like half a year ago."
Andypandy: "Preflop??"
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think P4s is saying that if you think he'll make a stubborn call-down with top pair then you shouldn't take this line on the flop and turn. There are better lines to take if all you want to do is push him off a crap pair.
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Andypandy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middle of Norway
Posts: 154
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Agreed. But i feel that if u have a clean image u can make them fold everything else than TP and better, and that combined with ur gutshot and backdraw flushdraw makes it an ok play, no?
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Larsmars: "I folded Aces today, I can't remember last time I did it, it must have been like half a year ago."
Andypandy: "Preflop??"
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andypandy
Agreed. But i feel that if u have a clean image u can make them fold everything else than TP and better, and that combined with ur gutshot and backdraw flushdraw makes it an ok play, no?
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The reason I want OP to shove is that he claims to have made the small sweeten pot type bet on the turn in order to bluff the river. So he fully knowingly makes a bet that will fold no hand. Now if he doesn't go ahead and bluff the river, then that bet will turn into a huge 21BB donation. I don't like the c/r+bet+shove line here, but at least it's an attempt at a winning play, c/r+bet small+check is just beyond ridiculous.
This is just a really bad flop for a c/r bluff period. Doesn't matter what our image is.
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Andypandy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middle of Norway
Posts: 154
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I agree if u bet turn, u must push river.
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Larsmars: "I folded Aces today, I can't remember last time I did it, it must have been like half a year ago."
Andypandy: "Preflop??"
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