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r8ed

05-24-2006, 04:41 AM Post subject: FTR fish pwns me

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Just kidding UG - in the heat of the moment I may play it the same.

I didn't raise preflop because half these guys (including UG) are calling and I'm playing AJ in an inflated pot OOP. I know I have the best hand on the flop. Then I'm 75% sure I have the best hand on the turn and UG is drawing. Otherwise he would reraise me unless he feels like taking a risk with a better hand. I discount the latter. One draw completes on the river. Hmmm...he bets the perfect amount not to give his hand away. I pretty much have to call this right? The reason I didn't do a blocking bet is because I posted here earlier on how I do blocking bets in this position on the river. Even if he missed, he may know this and could bluff me off the hand anyway.

When I look at the odds below, I'm happy with how I played it. The river call is debatable. Even though the turn bet was a little weak (going for pot control), it was a higher percentage than the pot odds.

***** Hand History for Game 4346311406 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Tue May 23 23:11:03 EDT 2006
Table Table 106633 (No DP) (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: ToastedMoses ( $341.08)
Seat 2: jandje ( $197)
Seat 3: dk318 ( $38.50)
Seat 4: ttubular ( $317.85)
Seat 5: QBANGUY ( $486.07)
Seat 6: UltimateGW ( $191)
ToastedMoses posts small blind (1)
jandje posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ As, Jh ]
dk318 calls (2)
QBANGUY: disconect protection
ttubular calls (2)
ttubular: oh thanks
QBANGUY calls (2)
UltimateGW calls (2)
ToastedMoses calls (1)
jandje checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4s, Ad, Qd ]
ToastedMoses checks.
jandje checks.
dk318 checks.
ttubular checks.
QBANGUY bets (4)
UltimateGW calls (4)
ToastedMoses folds.
jandje raises (19) to 19
dk318 folds.
ttubular folds.
QBANGUY calls (15)
UltimateGW calls (15)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 9c ]
jandje bets (30)
QBANGUY folds.
UltimateGW calls (30)
** Dealing River ** : [ 5d ]
jandje checks.
UltimateGW bets (65)
jandje calls (65)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $256 | Rake: $3
Board: [ 4s Ad Qd 9c 5d ]

jandje balance $81, lost $116 [ As Jh ] [ a pair of aces -- As,Ad,Qd,Jh,9c ]

UltimateGW balance $331, bet $116, collected $256, net +$140 [ Td Jd ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ad,Qd,Jd,Td,5d ]

Odds
-----------------------------------
On the flop:
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Jh 520 52.53 461 46.57 9 0.91 0.530
Jd Td 461 46.57 520 52.53 9 0.91 0.470

On the turn:
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Jh 29 65.91 15 34.09 0 0.00 0.659
Jd Td 15 34.09 29 65.91 0 0.00 0.341

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bdawg56kg

05-24-2006, 06:33 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

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Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Oh boy, I really don't like the flop cr. Lead for pot. If you think UG is drawing you have to bet more on the turn, like 50. Your bet is less than 1/2 pot. As played, river is a pretty easy fold. What do you beat? Do you think UG is floating you in an unraised pot?

UG - I think you should definitely raise this flop and play it a lot more aggressively. You have a pretty darn big draw.

gabe

05-24-2006, 03:28 PM

#3 (permalink)

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gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

you played it fine except for river call.

george should raise preflop sometimes here, and raise the flop most of the time.

WildBobAA

05-24-2006, 03:29 PM

#4 (permalink)

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gabe, where you been?

r8ed

05-24-2006, 03:55 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,524

I thought about this hand after I had a good night sleep. I was tired and I'm sick when I was playing and when I wrote this. I gave him odds the whole way and the river call is horrible. I gave him a chance to check behind with a hand that I can beat. He value bet and I foolishly called. I should have jacked this up preflop too.

Sorry UG - nh. It was the guy in the middle that gave you the correct flop odds and my feeble turn bet gave you good enough odds to call. I should have bet higher. AJ OOP sucks, especially when played poorly.

05-24-2006, 04:00 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Preflop -- I usually raise this, not at this table though. I would have been in position but against three or four other players (if not a family pot), that's just how this table was.

Flop -- I should have raised the focking roof, but I didn't.

Turn -- Jandjefish bets out half pot and I know he's not too confident about his hand. If I raise the roof here I am sure he folds here 90% of time, if not *every* time. That should have been my play here. Instead, I decide to call his half-pot bet knowing that if I hit one of my draws I will most likely get paid off by jandjefish.

River -- I get one of my many outs, Jandjefish checks, I bet, he calls...

Jandje, it was nice playing with you.....that QBANGUY was outragious but he was hitting hand after hand it seemed. I liked the way you played back at him and made him fold a bunch.....when I tried that he woke up with something big, though, so when I left with a $440 stack I was still only up about $45 on that table.

05-24-2006, 04:04 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

Sorry UG - nh. It was the guy in the middle that gave you the correct flop odds and my feeble turn bet gave you good enough odds to call. I should have bet higher. AJ OOP sucks, especially when played poorly.

Hey, no big deal. I didn't take any offense to what you said at the table, it's all good bro.

I think we both played this hand pretty badly, to be honest.....I just got the best of it in the end.

r8ed

05-24-2006, 04:19 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

In my other JJ post, I mentioned I had a good read on him. If he bet 1/2 pot or less he's done with the hand - simple as that. If he called down but got busy on the river he slowplayed a monster. I had one pair or worse almost every time I made him fold. I saw the hands he beat you on and figured you may be on slight tilt. So with you and him in this hand - was a little too cautious. I thought you were itching to win a big pot whether it be slowplaying a big hand or taking a shot with a draw. That's one reason I didn't want a big pot with top pair. I should have pumped up that turn hard. I cringe every time I think about the river call. I won't make that mistake again...at least less frequently

aislephive

05-24-2006, 10:05 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Toasted Moses is also a pretty good player, I think you could have found a slightly better table than UG and TM.

Anyways, you definitely have to be firing harder on the turn, and don't c/r the flop here, just lead like normal. On the turn the pot is around 70 I would say? Not too sure. I think a bet of 55 is a good sized bet. On the river, you beat nothing. Not sure if this was a frustration call or not, but in an unraised pot I can't see UG just calling the flop and turn with nothing to set up a big river bluff or something. I'd put him squarely on the diamond draw and when it got there it's a definite check/fold situation.

05-25-2006, 02:47 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

Toasted Moses is also a pretty good player, I think you could have found a slightly better table than UG and TM.

Yeah, I think QBANGUY even made a comment in the chatbox saying something to the effect of, "Dang, this is a really tough table. Everyone here is good." I thought to myself, "You know what? He's totally right. I should probably leave."

I stayed "for the challenge," though, as I haven't been playing a whole lot of online poker lately and I was just one-tabling to get my groove back.

In the future that's probably not a table I will stick around at for long.

P.S. Aislephive, the rest of your post was spot on, too.

natdang

05-25-2006, 03:04 AM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Los Angeles

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Agree with bdawg here, why checkraise flop? you have 1000000 people to act behind you, i'm perfectly happy leading out and straight up taking the pot with this hand.

Turn, you can't bet 30 into this pot, you just had two people call $20 on the flop. I really hammer this turn, maybe 50-60, and hope to take it down right there. Chances of getting both trailers to fold to a bet of 30 here are pretty slim.

River call is obviously a nono, though I must admit, river calls made out of anger/desperation are a huge leak in my game.

aislephive

05-25-2006, 04:34 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

Toasted Moses is also a pretty good player, I think you could have found a slightly better table than UG and TM.

P.S. Aislephive, the rest of your post was spot on, too.

Sometimes I'll notice a couple of decent players and still sit because I, too, like the challenge. I usually make sure there is at least one or two players sporting a 50 vpip and it makes it more worthwhile. I've sat down at a few of Toasted Moses's tables before myself and I know that he is a very solid player, I also know him from cardrunners and he has also played at 2/4 quite a bit, definitely knows what he is doing. A lot of times though, one major fish can feed a whole table. Problem is that you can find two or three guys at 200nl who have no clue what they're doing and take their money. And generally I try to stay out of the way of the good regulars and they usually do the same for you.

And not all of the regulars are good either, it's pretty easy to tell who is and who isn't after a couple hundred hands.

Fnord

05-25-2006, 05:00 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

If I know who UG is and he doesn't know who I am, then this is a pretty easy laydown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

r8ed

05-25-2006, 01:42 PM

#14 (permalink)

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I thought UG knew it was me but he didn't. It should have been an easy laydown - it was poor judgement on my part as was every street. I don't think check-rasing is that bad on the flop. I got to see what everyone wanted to do. If certain people bet, I know exactly what to do. When everyone checked I was pretty sure I had the best hand and was up against a draw or a weaker pair. If QBANGUY didn't call, I would have had an easier time taking this down. Two people calling a full pot bet and me OOP with a hand that has little chance to improve usually means trouble. QBANGUY slowplays monsters even w/ draws on the board.

The table wasn't overly tough (try B2B). UG and Moses were known quantities and I had position on both. I wanted to observe UG since I never played with him before. I've played with Moses and he seemed good but not great but that's not a huge sample size. His stats are very similar to mine but he makes his share of mistakes. I'll be more aware of him going forward. None of the other guys seemed that good and QBANGUY was in all the hands. He was easy for me to read. I did think about leaving but every time I did, I took some money from QBANGUY. I lost KK to AA on one hand and I lost this hand to UG. Other than that I did well. With that said - I gotta move on even when I have the slightest thought that I should leave. My other table at this time was a total joke.

05-25-2006, 02:44 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

I thought UG knew it was me but he didn't.

No, I knew it was someone from FTR, I just couldn't remember your FTR handle at the time. To me that meant that you were at least a good player, maybe even a little better than that....but not so good that I should be crapping my pants at the sight of you.

As soon as you told me what your FTR handle was it clicked instantly.

05-25-2006, 03:10 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

If I know who UG is and he doesn't know who I am, then this is a pretty easy laydown.

This thread is just one HUGE reminder to me to change my screen name.

Lukie

05-25-2006, 04:46 PM

#17 (permalink)

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r8ed -

Quote:

I didn't raise preflop because half these guys (including UG) are calling and I'm playing AJ in an inflated pot OOP

(this is fine, I would almost never raise here).

Quote:

jandje checks.
dk318 checks.
ttubular checks.
QBANGUY bets (4)
UltimateGW calls (4)
ToastedMoses folds.
jandje raises (19) to 19 dk318 folds.
ttubular folds.
QBANGUY calls (15)
UltimateGW calls (15)

What exactly do you think you are doing though? Looks like you are playing AJ in an inflated pot OOP.

Bad time to check/raise flop, bad turn bet (it's really weak), terrible river call. You played preflop perfectly though.

George, can you PLEASE raise this flop?

Lukie

05-25-2006, 04:52 PM

#18 (permalink)

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also r8ed why would you get mad at george for this hand?

It's +EV for him to call both bets on the flop (even more +EV to raise the first bet no doubt)

Very easy call for him on the turn. He's getting better then 3:1 with 15 nut outs (r8ed is never going to have the Q high flush draw here...). Pretty close in direct odds but add in implied odds and this is a super easy call.

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