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mixchange
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02-09-2008, 12:41 AM
Post subject: Fold A high flush to potential SF?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (3 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($95.50)
SB ($95.50)
Hero ($107.10)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 , A .
1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.
Flop: ($2) 6, 5, T (2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero calls $1.
Turn: ($4) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero calls $1.
River: ($6) 8 (2 players)
SB bets $1, Hero raises to $7, SB raises to $50, Hero ???????
this seems like he wants to be paid off. Played like 5 hands HU so far after table broke in 6 max. Anyone fold here? Can he really make this raise with a King? My hand just looks like an A or K calling turn for flush.
who folds?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
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caaaaaaalllllll
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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yeah i call. this is a ridiculous raise. although if he does have a SF then that raise makes sense if he can put you on NF.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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I fold this without even thinking twice....come on, when does anybody ever do this with the K high flush? never so you can completely discount that, so it's either a bluff or a str8 flush and people arn't likely to try and bluff you off the hand you are representing (the nut flush)
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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call. fold if it was a push.
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Toadstool
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 442
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why do people say call in this situation? is it because you assign villain a high bluff% or do you think he will overvalue Kd/Qd?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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this is a really easy fold
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Fold
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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sick spot, im the biggest calling station you will ever find, and i cant even find a reason to make a call here.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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if the pot was bloated more on eariler streets i would consider calling but this seems like the easiest fold of all time.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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im not folding
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Hey? Where's the re-raise all in button?
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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to anyone who routinely calls here readless...is there any particular reason why, or do you just like to pay any amount of money to see the other players hole cards regardless of his likely range and frequencies of holdings because 'gat dam im not gonna let that sumbitch bluff me'
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Taxi
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 226
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Really not folding.
But in the context of our whole game, i dont think it really matters does it?
I mean, how often do we lose flush vs str8 flush?
And why wouldn't villain play this with Kd???? I would anyways.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
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LOL @ calling here
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Taxi
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 226
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I'm trying to argue calling vs folding is pretty neutral EV, either way I dont think it really matters.
Villain is playing Kd exactly the same way
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taxi
Really not folding.
But in the context of our whole game, i dont think it really matters does it?
I mean, how often do we lose flush vs str8 flush?
And why wouldn't villain play this with Kd???? I would anyways.
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why not? how often do you lose with As Qd to Td 8d on a Qh 8h 4c 3c 8s board? every situation matters
and i dont mean to be mean, but anyone who thinks bet/overbet 3betting with the Kd for value is a good play here is legally retarded.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
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lol nutsinho, you're always right
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Taxi
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 226
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Quote:
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why not? how often do you lose with As Qd to Td 8d on a Qh 8h 4c 3c 8s board? every situation matters
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That is a much more important situation. If I decide to slow play my TPTK I'm gonna get spanked on the river and lose a shit load. If I play my TPTK as usual, am gonna get most of my money in good.
How you play the above situation is crucial, but how you play top flush vs (potential) str8 flush is pretty irrelevent, since its not gonna come up very often.
But I accept playing Kd like that is pretty daft, I didn't really take note of the overbet size, but jesus:
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and i dont mean to be mean, but anyone who thinks bet/overbet 3betting with the Kd for value is a good play here is legally retarded
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I dont think this is the place for that really, totally out of order.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taxi
Quote:
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why not? how often do you lose with As Qd to Td 8d on a Qh 8h 4c 3c 8s board? every situation matters
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How you play the above situation is crucial, but how you play top flush vs (potential) str8 flush is pretty irrelevent, since its not gonna come up very often.
Quote:
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and i dont mean to be mean, but anyone who thinks bet/overbet 3betting with the Kd for value is a good play here is legally retarded
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I dont think this is the place for that really, totally out of order. |
Taxi, it comes across that you get into a situation and then revert to some type of mental poker dictionary that tells you what the right play is without any thought or reasoning.
And this situation is not irrelevant at all. It's hugely relevant when you look at the bigger picture, DUCY?
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ChrisTheFish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Huddersfield, England
Posts: 492
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Disconnect protect.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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obv coming over here with the Kd wouldnt be smart but we are up against some random 100nl player who obv isnt good just based on how he played this hand.
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Taxi
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 226
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Ash, why did you edit my post in your reply?? Your edit only had the stupid stuff I said and not the reasonable stuff.
Anyway, playing like this with the  is pretty daft, I've admitted that.
But Ash:
Quote:
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And this situation is not irrelevant at all. It's hugely relevant when you look at the bigger picture, DUCY?
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Sorry I dont really CY
(am not being patronising, I want to know why, so I can be a better player)
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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its a limped pot HU, dude.
how ironic would it be if he had  ?
LoL!
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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Taxi
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 226
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What i'm trying to argue is its pretty much neutral EV between calling and folding.
And if villain had then its just a cooler.
Its not HU.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taxi
Ash, why did you edit my post in your reply?? Your edit only had the stupid stuff I said and not the reasonable stuff.
Anyway, playing like this with the is pretty daft, I've admitted that.
But Ash:
Quote:
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And this situation is not irrelevant at all. It's hugely relevant when you look at the bigger picture, DUCY?
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Sorry I dont really CY
(am not being patronising, I want to know why, so I can be a better player) |
I edited out the reasonable stuff because I wasn't commenting on it. 
It's relevant because this situation isn't an individual situation in some respects - we have a good hand, it looks like our opponent may have a better hand and we're not sure what to do. Working out the correct play requires fundamental knowledge and this knowledge carries throughout all situations in all forms of poker - stuff like calling ranges, what our opponent thinks we have, etc. (That's just a couple of random things, far from a definitive list)
The very good poker players in this thread (I'm reasonable, but not Very Good) aren't commenting based on experience of being in exactly this situation, they're commenting based on applying fundamental knowledge and theory to the situation.
Hope that clears things up a bit
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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i doubt this opponet is thinking about what we have. it can definetly be i have a Kd omg bet.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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this is a really easy fold
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This should have been the end of the discussion.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taxi
I mean, how often do we lose flush vs str8 flush?
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when there's an open ended straight flush draw on the board?
the end.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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where's the raise preflop option?
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
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this is a really easy fold
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This should have been the end of the discussion. |
dont think so but w/e
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
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I'm with taxi on this one, it doesn't matter much either way.
Open folding a royal flush isn't a huge mistake in the long run (where "long" means lifetime).
I call because calling is fun.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChrisTheFish
Disconnect protect.
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LOL.
Fold imo.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
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i'd call if i was a station
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
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this is a really easy fold
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This should have been the end of the discussion. |
I folded, but wasn't sure if I was being nitty. Thanks for your comments.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
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foooooooooooooooooooooooooooold
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
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Smith
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In a LuckBox
Posts: 112
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I think you really have to know what kind of player he is. If he has a history or not of making big raise bluffs. The $1 lead in bet is very odd every street then the shove... If this is a table that is breaking down, and he is a bluffer then I would call. But the safe play is obviously to fold since there is more downside then there is upside.
This kind of stuff happens to me a lot when a table is breaking down, and after I fold and the guy wins he leaves the table... And I think immediately he just wanted to bluff big before he left... Jamie Gold Style...
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
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wow people want to call?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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