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Flush draw question

  
 
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chardrian
Old 03-02-2007, 02:40 PM     Post subject: Flush draw question #1 (permalink)  
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Well, I am back trying to learn SHNL.

So far so good, the only hands I see from PT where I am probably overplaying are flush draws (and this is probably from my all or nuttin strategy in MTTs).

E.g. (I am not sure why I didn't raise preflop here, but other than that..)

POKERSTARS GAME #8694123014: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/03/01 - 22:45:45 (ET)
Table 'Sappho IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: amazinmets73 ($114 in chips)
Seat 2: chardrian ($86.40 in chips)
Seat 3: lrpoker ($105.15 in chips)
Seat 4: fuel75 ($60 in chips)
Seat 5: Stex8 ($152.30 in chips)
Seat 6: shaoben ($97.25 in chips)
lrpoker: posts small blind $0.50
fuel75: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [6d 8d]
Stex8: calls $1
shaoben: folds
amazinmets73: folds
chardrian: calls $1
lrpoker: folds
fuel75: checks
*** FLOP *** [8h 4d Td]
fuel75: checks
Stex8: bets $3
chardrian: raises $6 to $9
fuel75: folds
Stex8: raises $7 to $16
chardrian: raises $69.40 to $85.40 and is all-in
Stex8: calls $69.40
*** TURN *** [8h 4d Td] [As]
*** RIVER *** [8h 4d Td As] [5h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Stex8: shows [4s 4h] (three of a kind, Fours)
chardrian: shows [6d 8d] (a pair of Eights)
Stex8 collected $171.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $174.30 | Rake $3
Board [8h 4d Td As 5h]
Seat 1: amazinmets73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: chardrian (button) showed [6d 8d] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 3: lrpoker (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: fuel75 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Stex8 showed [4s 4h] and won ($171.30) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 6: shaoben folded before Flop (didn't bet)


The better play has to be to just call his weenie raise and go from there correct?
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gabe
Old 03-02-2007, 03:07 PM #2 (permalink)  
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raise preflop since you have button, then its easy to get allin on that flop

im less likely to get allin here since it is an unraised pot. i think i would just call his small raise and go broke when you improve.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 03-02-2007, 04:31 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 He has something pretty damn good here in an unraised pot. You're two pair draw probably isn't good, so with your position, just call and see if he gives you odds to hit on the river if you don't hit the turn.
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Sprayed
Old 03-02-2007, 05:31 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Very interesting. Preflop determines how you play post, eh? So, I gather that if chard would have raised the button and saw this monster draw, he could then get his chips in, correct?
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Genitruc
Old 03-02-2007, 07:57 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Your raise is fine IMO.

However, after he donk-3 bets you, his range is narrowed significantly. The limp can now be guessed at a PP that has made a set (lol@results but it's what seemed normal when reading the HH).

At this point, you're in a great spot since he 3-bet so small and will be unlikely to release his hand if you hit your flush.

The optimal play to me seems to be flat-call the 3 bet and re-evaluate on the turn depending on the price he gives you.

If you complete your flush, valuetaooown time.

If, however, you've seen this guy donk-limp big pairs in EP your play is closer to optimal, although an argument can be made for taking the good price and just stacking him when you hit...
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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chardrian
Old 03-02-2007, 08:03 PM #6 (permalink)  
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yup that's what I thought - thanks.
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