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twosevoff
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02-21-2006, 12:46 AM
Post subject: Flopped straight on 3flush board
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Villains were both typical tight aggressive.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
SB ($173.70)
BB ($88.90)
UTG ($143.05)
Hero ($114.70)
Button ($169.25)
Preflop: Hero is MP with A , J . SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $3.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $3.
Flop: ($13) K , T, Q (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $44, UTG calls $44, Hero...?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Insta-muck.
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CavemanWins
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta, Ga USA
Posts: 68
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If I am in my right frame of mind I would fold. It is a second best hand with no options for drawing out.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Insta-muck.
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Explain? What % of the time does the SB show you a made flush here?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Insta-muck.
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Explain? What % of the time does the SB show you a made flush here? |
The small blind isn't the main concern, it's the other player. With what hands can he check, and then just call $44? He is either a very poor player, or he flopped a flush. Even if this player doesn't have the flush, he has to contend with the small blind as well. He has to simultaneously beat both players in order to win. If you factor in the possibility that his hand is vulnerable to the board pairing, or another club hitting, this situation is even more dubious.
If it were just a matter of calling this one raise, it might be less clear, but he's probably going to have to commit a large number of chips just to find out whether or not he was drawing dead from the flop. He will basically be committing his entire stack on a hope. Why not fold and move on to the next hand?
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Insta-muck.
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I agree that it's a fold but maybe not as clear-cut as you make it out to be. If either villian is tricky and capable of making moves, I don't mind checking behind here and peeling a safe turn card before putting money in.
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Yeah, I folded figuring it was very likely that at least one of them had a flush and I was drawing dead. What would have been your guys's play if UTG had folded to SB's raise?
Results:
Flop: ($13) K, T, Q (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $44, UTG calls $44, Hero folds.
Turn: ($111) A (2 players)
SB calls $125.70 (All-In), UTG calls $95.05 (All-In).
River: ($331.75) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Final Pot: $331.75
Results in white below:
SB has 7c 6c (flush, king high).
UTG has 2c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: UTG wins $301.10. SB wins $30.65.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twosevoff
Yeah, I folded figuring it was very likely that at least one of them had a flush and I was drawing dead. What would have been your guys's play if UTG had folded to SB's raise?
Results:
Flop: ($13) K , T , Q (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $44, UTG calls $44, Hero folds.
Turn: ($111) A (2 players)
SB calls $125.70 (All-In), UTG calls $95.05 (All-In).
River: ($331.75) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)
Final Pot: $331.75
Results in white below:
SB has 7c 6c (flush, king high).
UTG has 2c Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: UTG wins $301.10. SB wins $30.65. |
Yeah. The nut flush was actually the first thing that came to my mind when I saw that that player checked and just smooth called a $44 bet and raise.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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The real dillema in this hand is that even if your straight is good now, it is very vulnerable, particularly to a club, but pairing the board might be enough too. If you are behind on this flop, you are drawing dead. I think the risk reward in this hand favors folding the flop.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i think you take a free card on the flop and reevaluate the turn.
So many horrible cards can hit the turn that it may be better to wait. If i was oop i would have to lead these flop i think, no other choice and hope no one has a better hand or is prepared to make a play. But in position i have an option for pot control and free cards. Giving free cards is bad, that i agree but here if you get a blank on the turn and still face heavy reisistence its easy to fold. While a cold call along with pot control can at least allow you to show down what may be 2nd best hand for cheap.
and of course, opp doesnt need to hit the turn or the flop for the matter, he just needs to read that you cant call.
So i check this flop, if im way behind so be it ill lose only a little, and if a scray card hits the turn i can get away with 4 invested only. Similarily if the turn is a blank i can try to identify how good the straight is.
As played, the cold called reraise can only be a flush and a good one at that.
I remember a post by bdawg (above) about QQ on a horribly scray board too. We seemed to sort of conclude that checking was a good option or a best option considering the amount of cards that can fall and effectivly leaving you unable to call a large bet.
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