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Genitruc

12-14-2006, 07:07 AM Post subject: Floater's Folly

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point

I float a ton. Here’s a situation where I hit one of the cards I’m looking for but felt torn. Villain has been pretty damn aggro postflop and has taken a cpl big pots off of me. The problem with raising here is that he quite often doesn’t even have a pair. On the other hand, if he does have a KQ-ish type hand a lot of cards will kill my action on the river.

I felt like minraising but am still not sure what best course of action would be. He knows I’m capable of big moves after the flop. I think he’ll pay me off w AQ on a safe river a ton… Of course other shitty thing is my hand gets conterfeited/sucked out on (when I'm leading) a lot on river.

***** Hand History for Game 5503761385 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, December 14, 01:16:55 ET 2006
Table Table 126823 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 4: KingCarn ( $347.60 )
Seat 6: HERO ( $372.50 )
Seat 1: Seszion ( $231.10 )
Seat 5: m_zeal ( $221.20 )
Seat 3: Umstien ( $183 )
Seat 2: pit_grinder ( $196 )
pit_grinder posts small blind [$1].
Umstien posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 3s 4s ]
KingCarn raises [$8]
m_zeal folds.
HERO calls [$8]
Seszion folds.
pit_grinder folds.
Umstien folds.

** Dealing Flop ** [ Qh, 6s, 4c ]
KingCarn bets [$15]
HERO calls [$15]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
KingCarn bets [$33]
HERO...

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

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euphoricism

12-14-2006, 07:21 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

then dont min, do like 2.5-3?

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Genitruc

12-14-2006, 07:31 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

then dont min, do like 2.5-3?

this creates an even bigger problem when my hand gets sucked out on since i ve commited most of my stack to the pot

A big raise also gets him off tpgk a lot of the time...

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

johnny_fish

12-14-2006, 08:45 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee

Posts: 2,186

I like calling mostly and using position on the river. You'll have to raise this turn sometimes for balance though.

Genitruc

12-14-2006, 09:41 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

I like calling mostly and using position on the river. You'll have to raise this turn sometimes for balance though.

agreed

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Genitruc

12-14-2006, 09:42 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

so johnny I'm looking to make around 60k in January but I don't feel like playing cash games.

Got any ideas?

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

johnny_fish

12-14-2006, 11:22 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee

Posts: 2,186

Blackjack obv!

completely unrelated and off-topic, 5 mins ago:

Villain is tightpassive, we're 170bb deep. Sickest hand I've ever played.. (bodog, so no hand converter).

---------------------
Starting hand #487633511
------------------------------
NEW HAND
kingpokar posts the small blind $10.00
jungle boy posts the big blind $20.00

DEALING POCKETS
alancheng86 folds
Cute Girl folds
MiniMitiMo raises $50.00 to $70.00
busto_soon calls $70.00 (J8s)
sbizzlex213 folds
loose_goose folds
kingpokar calls $60.00
jungle boy folds

DEALING FLOP (Jh,Qs,Jd)
kingpokar bets $230.00
MiniMitiMo calls $230.00
busto_soon calls $230.00

DEALING TURN (5c)
kingpokar checks
MiniMitiMo checks
busto_soon bets $660.00
kingpokar folds
MiniMitiMo, it's your turn. You have 10 seconds to act
MiniMitiMo raises $660.00 to $1,320.00
busto_soon goes all in $2,286.11
MiniMitiMo calls $1,626.11
MiniMitiMo shows a Full House, Queens full of Jacks (QQ)

DEALING RIVER (Js)
MiniMitiMo shows a Full House, Queens full of Jacks
busto_soon shows Four of a Kind, Jacks

Hand 487633511:
busto_soon wins main pot($6,809.22)
with Four of a Kind, Jacks

Thee One

12-14-2006, 02:29 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

Gotta love Bodog and those quads! NH.

Galapogos

12-14-2006, 03:01 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: The Loser's Lounge

Posts: 2,322

Why are you guys playing such weak holdings against a preflop raise like this? Are you changing it up here? Or is this common and you feel superior post-flop play and position makes this profitable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

dsaxton

12-14-2006, 03:54 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

I can't really think of any reason to raise, unless you think a raise has value against this player. I'd prefer to just call here and let him continue to hang himself with a bluff or overplay his hand.

gabe

12-14-2006, 04:08 PM

#11 (permalink)

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gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

this is an easy raise........you want to build the pot so you can get his stack in if he just has a pair. there are way too many river cards that make this difficult.

i make it $100 straight and push blank rivers

Fnord

12-14-2006, 06:12 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I agree with Gabe.

Also, I don't like suggesting that I just call down my pretty good hands. Hence I like a raise here for balance reasons as well for all of the times I might raise here on a bluff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

IowaSkinsFan

12-14-2006, 06:36 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

wait.... isn't the turn on Johnnyfish's hand an easy fold?

Check out the new blog!!!

euphoricism

12-14-2006, 07:21 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Why are you guys playing such weak holdings against a preflop raise like this? Are you changing it up here? Or is this common and you feel superior post-flop play and position makes this profitable?

I dont like OPs cold call unless he's planning to float a very large percentage of the time (which he apparently does) and use exactly as you said his superior post flop play and his position. A reraise is my preference if I'm feeling spunky (because you get "the initiative" in the hand on the flop, rather than having to float villain to take the initiative)

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

Genitruc

12-14-2006, 07:45 PM

#15 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 4,463

I was in position for the hand in question. I don't really ever call garbage OOP, it's no fun.

Thinking it over a little more, I guess not raising here is pretty weak. If villain has KQ-ish type hand he's got 10 outs to the best hand

so if I'm raising a flush on the turn to protect against a boat I guess I need to be raising this hand vs villain's likely 1pair (at best) hand.

thx for comments

btw that's a sick hand Johnny. I agree that without a read that villain sux your push is kind of spewy...

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

dsaxton

12-15-2006, 08:41 PM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

I guess raising is ok too, but I think you may be able to get more value by calling and then value betting the river than by raising the turn, which folds out most hands that you beat, including bluffs. There is nothing wrong with taking the pot down on the turn, though.

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