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dsaxton
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07-11-2007, 08:15 PM
Post subject: Floated flop, turned pair.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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It's been a while since I've played this game, but I'm curious what others think about this hand. This guy seemed like an aggressive regular. He was making a lot of position raises and continuation bets. Certainly the type who is capable of bluffing or semi-bluffing twice when he has the lead. Any thoughts?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP ($200)
Button ($200)
Hero ($203.25)
BB ($197)
UTG ($162.95)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , J .
2 folds, Button raises to $8, Hero calls $7, 1 fold.
Flop: ($18) T , 3 , 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero calls $14.
Turn: ($46) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $32, Hero raises to $181.25
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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I like the turn play a lot, it sends a nice little message.
I think the pre-flop and flop plays are a lot more interesting. What's your overall game plan to fustrate this guy's naked button aggression?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I don't like turn shove because he's not necessarily betting a draw and non draws have almost no outs. Only better hands will call the shove obviously, it's essentially turning your hand into a bluff and the boards not vunerable enough to warrant it IMO.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I don't like turn shove because he's not necessarily betting a draw and non draws have almost no outs. Only better hands will call the shove obviously, it's essentially turning your hand into a bluff and the boards not vunerable enough to warrant it IMO.
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Why is raising the wrong play when I don't have the best hand?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I don't like turn shove because he's not necessarily betting a draw and non draws have almost no outs. Only better hands will call the shove obviously, it's essentially turning your hand into a bluff and the boards not vunerable enough to warrant it IMO.
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Why is raising the wrong play when I don't have the best hand? |
Because we put more money in the pot when we're behind... we're essentially giving away money...
i dont know that i get what your asking.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I don't like turn shove because he's not necessarily betting a draw and non draws have almost no outs. Only better hands will call the shove obviously, it's essentially turning your hand into a bluff and the boards not vunerable enough to warrant it IMO.
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Why is raising the wrong play when I don't have the best hand? |
Because we put more money in the pot when we're behind... we're essentially giving away money...
i dont know that i get what your asking. |
Not when he folds. It's sort of a value raise / bluff, depending on what he is actually holding.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I dislike all 3 streets. Pre-flop is pre-flop though, do what you like. You could pick a worse hand to call with. If you want to take this pot away, I like a flop c/r better than floating oop.
The turn I hate, b/c you turn a hand that has some value into a bluff. If he's thinking, he's never folding an overpair or AJ here imo, since you're never c/c'ing a drawy flop with a set. So you're only folding out hands you beat. I like c/c again. River would be an interesting decision... I'm probably bet/folding most cards.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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As Sauce has told me, shoving marginal made hands is almost always bad.
You're shoving out all the hands you're beating, what's the point of doing it? You can just c/c this bet and then c/c a blank river. if clubs hit, and he fires a third barrel with air, nh him if he's bluffing.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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I have started to 3-bet KJo out of the blinds against habitual button raisers. As played I am not really happy with the turn shove. I rather check/call the turn and lead the river on a blank.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I just really don't like this, I reserve these lines for nut/near-nut hands and air.
You have showdown value, get there cheaply IMO.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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If my hand is good enough to call his turn bet, why give him a free card to potentially take away a $110+ pot? I figured also that it would be a difficult call with his most likely hands that are beating mine.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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Pf is marginal, but I really hate c/c flop. C/f and c/r are much better. I think turn is okay. If there's history I'd like it a lot more.
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Andypandy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Middle of Norway
Posts: 154
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What about bet/fold the turn?
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Larsmars: "I folded Aces today, I can't remember last time I did it, it must have been like half a year ago."
Andypandy: "Preflop??"
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
Pf is marginal, but I really hate c/c flop. C/f and c/r are much better. I think turn is okay. If there's history I'd like it a lot more.
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Of course c/f is standard but hero should fold preflop then imo.
If not, isn't the flop call a pretty standard float? A c/r is too expensive and the turn could either get hero a hand or a bluffing oppertunity.
Ok, so this time it gives hero a hand. I like c/c turn because a lead or c/r folds out any worse hand or air and I think those are most of villains range.
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Well your line is super strong, but I'd rather do this with 89/Q9/KQ than KJ for the obvious reason that you're not getting called by worse and you have more outs with a draw.
I think there may be better lines here, maybe even bet/3-bet the turn if raised and you think he's out of line.
Tough spot though. Results soon?
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Family Cruise IMO
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I just really don't like this, I reserve these lines for nut/near-nut hands and air.
You have showdown value, get there cheaply IMO.
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Ace isTrumps
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23
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Mistake one. You called KJo , a real problem hand and one thats easily dominated out of position and from the small small blind with the big blind still to act.
Mistake 2. You check/call OUT OF POSITION with OVERCARDS
Mistake 3. You hit your jack and auto assume your good, lol.
Mistake 4. You never pondered if you WERE DRAWING DEAD. What if he flopped a set?
I'm sorry but the way you played that hand is laughable. Even if you had the intention of stealing the pot on a later street, it's better to do it IN POSITION. I'll be moving up in limits in time and i hope to see you with money hopefully still left at the 200nl tables.
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Ace isTrumps
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23
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missed one,
Mistake 5. You could of check/called turn and kept pot small which is good play oop but instead you chose to inflate the pot and make it easy for the villain.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ace isTrumps
Mistake one. You called KJo , a real problem hand and one thats easily dominated out of position and from the small small blind with the big blind still to act.
Mistake 2. You check/call OUT OF POSITION with OVERCARDS
Mistake 3. You hit your jack and auto assume your good, lol.
Mistake 4. You never pondered if you WERE DRAWING DEAD. What if he flopped a set?
I'm sorry but the way you played that hand is laughable. Even if you had the intention of stealing the pot on a later street, it's better to do it IN POSITION. I'll be moving up in limits in time and i hope to see you with money hopefully still left at the 200nl tables.
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i dont think you have the reputation or respect yet to include so much disrespect in your replies. your answer is ''Laughable''
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ace isTrumps
Mistake one. You called KJo , a real problem hand and one thats easily dominated out of position and from the small small blind with the big blind still to act.
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Mistake 1) You think that all players who raise on the button are raising premium hands
Mistake 2) You think that you should never 3-bet AK preflop
Mistake 3) You think you are the best player on this site, when it's blatantly obvious you are a donk
Mitake 4) You think people should respect your replies after <10 posts and all of them are awful.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Can you guys HU4BR already so this can end?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ace isTrumps
Mistake one. You called KJo , a real problem hand and one thats easily dominated out of position and from the small small blind with the big blind still to act.
Mistake 2. You check/call OUT OF POSITION with OVERCARDS
Mistake 3. You hit your jack and auto assume your good, lol.
Mistake 4. You never pondered if you WERE DRAWING DEAD. What if he flopped a set?
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LOL
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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turn is fine
flop isn't too bad just plan on bluffing if turn goes check check and you dont hit a pair
turn sucks because people don't call with worse here, its almost a pure semibluff.
id rather just bet turn and river or c/c turn and bet river. people are more likely to fold stuff to check raises than people just betting into them.
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