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Fish hooks.

  
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 08-07-2006, 04:57 AM     Post subject: Fish hooks. #1 (permalink)  
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1) Villain is 28/21/aggro over a small number of hands. A few hands ago he got stacked with KK losing to AKs all in pf, so he could be tilting. How's my line?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($512.70)
SB ($437.20)
BB ($1060.50)
Hero ($394)
MP ($400)
CO ($406)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J. SB posts a blind of $2.
Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, CO raises to $54, 3 folds, Hero calls $38.

Flop: ($114) 9, Q, T (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $85, Hero calls $340 (All-In)


2) Same table, different villain. He is 23/17/3. Seems very solid from what I've seen, definitely a thinking player. I think from his pov its very obvious I'm weak here, so I think I need to call the *inevitable* river push a certain % of the time, if I decide to check flop and call turn. Thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($522.70)
UTG ($392.90)
MP ($479.50)
Hero ($394)
SB ($460.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, MP raises to $14, Hero raises to $48, 2 folds, MP calls $34.

Flop: ($102) 2, T, Q (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($102) 4 (2 players)
MP bets $100, Hero calls $100.

River: ($302) 5 (2 players)
MP calls $331.50 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $633.50
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Lukie
Old 08-07-2006, 05:12 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 hand 1: I find myself making similar moves routinely. I think the flop play is -EV in isolation, but +EV for metagame when correctly balanced since you'll get more action when you have TT. I'm not really sure what I think about this hand though, if we called preflop with 77 and the board came down 568, I'd like this much more, but this board is just frightening and hit a big part of his range quite hard. I don't really know tbh. Like I said before, I've made this play countless times, and in fact, the other guy has never folded and I've never hit a straight. I hit my J once, but the other guy had KK. Oh well.

hand 2: I dislike the flop check behind. I completely understand the reasoning and thought process behind it though so there's no need to explain it, I just don't like it in THIS particular situation. Lot's of cards suck, and it puts you to very difficult decisions later (I know you, like myself, hate this reasoning, but it has to at least be -considered-). As played, I think the turn call is fine but I'd probably fold the river. Folding the turn is an option. Calling the river is another option.

Quote:
I think from his pov its very obvious I'm weak here, so I think I need to call the *inevitable* river push a certain % of the time, if I decide to check flop and call turn. Thoughts?
I disagree. Game theory certainly dictates that you need to call here a certain % of the time, but just because you can be exploited, doesn't mean that the other guy WILL exploit you.
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aislephive
Old 08-07-2006, 06:53 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: I think it's fine, you also have the Js as well and probably a fair amount of fold equity, good for metagame too.

Hand 2: I'd bet this flop most of the time, like Lukie said I know why you would check here, but I also agree with him that this isn't the best spot to disguise your hand. On the turn given his bet size I think I'd probably fold, he set this bet up so he could have a PSB on the river, so I doubt he checks the river here very often on a blank. So if I'm calling the turn here I'm calling the river on a blank since I think he is likely to continue a bluff here given his substantial turn bet.
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gabe
Old 08-07-2006, 04:48 PM #4 (permalink)  
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both are fine
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johnnyBuz
Old 08-07-2006, 10:36 PM #5 (permalink)  
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metagame = ?
Liter of cola.
 
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benny999
Old 08-07-2006, 10:44 PM #6 (permalink)  
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-13407.htm - Metagame
a game within a game. Usually based on the characteristics of the players involved.

actually that seems kinda vague...anyway, for example by playing like flop 1 with JJ, he can play a set or str8 the same if villain's expect him to check/push with more then that.
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Fnord
Old 08-07-2006, 10:53 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Hand 1: I think it's fine, you also have the Js as well and probably a fair amount of fold equity, good for metagame too.

Hand 2: I'd bet this flop most of the time, like Lukie said I know why you would check here, but I also agree with him that this isn't the best spot to disguise your hand. On the turn given his bet size I think I'd probably fold, he set this bet up so he could have a PSB on the river, so I doubt he checks the river here very often on a blank. So if I'm calling the turn here I'm calling the river on a blank since I think he is likely to continue a bluff here given his substantial turn bet.
aislephive is rapidly becomming my favorite poster.

Agree with everything said, expect I can see some merit calling the turn and chickening out on the river depending on our opponent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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