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Monty

01-11-2005, 09:29 PM Post subject: Finishing 2nd

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Ohio

Posts: 10

In my home game im consistently finishing 2nd.
Its frustrating to say the least.
Its not always the same players winning and the players vary some.

How do you all analyze your play for improvement?

Thanks
Monty-

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a500lbgorilla

01-11-2005, 09:31 PM

#2 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

You are probably a rock who will only play top tier hands and get your fishy friends to pay you off. However, you're not making the necessary adjustments when it gets short handed and heads up.

That's just my initial guess. You've gotta tell us what kind of hands you play, how you play them, etc etc.

We need more info before we can fix you.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Monty

01-11-2005, 11:31 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Ohio

Posts: 10

Id say your right on your assesment.
I play against a few good people, easily as good or better than me.
Im known as a tight player, but still have problems bluffing

I play mostly good hands, pocket pairs, AK,AQ, AJ, and also
small suited connectors.
Sometimes i slip and play inferior hands as long as it doesnt
cost me to much.

My biggest obstacle is not being able to bluff i think.

I do switch my betting up and that seemed to help me
alot this past game.
Also i think i have a "tell" on one of the better players for
next time

I take my poker seriously and appreciate all responses.
Monty-

a500lbgorilla

01-12-2005, 02:50 AM

#4 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

What sort of hands are you losing with heads up?

What do the stacks usually look like?

How do the opponents usually treat you?

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Fortune 500

01-12-2005, 03:43 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Bluffalupagus

Posts: 1,261

Bluffing heads up is "generally" a bad idea. It takes less of a hand to call heads up than it does with more in the game, so you're more likely to get shaken down on a bluff. There's a timing to it that you can only master with experience... but here are a few good times to try it:

Regardless of what you have, when the board pairs... check raise. This will win for you against good players. Fish are generally too stupid to be afraid of the move.

When there's an obviopus draw on the board, and your heads up opponent slows down after pushing you, shove them in. He's afraid of the draw.

Once during the night, just check raise the hell out of someone with nothing. Don't commit too much to the pot, in case they have a hand... but you've got to keep them on their toes.

I've learned my lessons in the home game, too. You don't know how many times I've finished second... but it was hardly ever to the good players. The problem is... if you play with the same weak players long enough, they're going to catch on to your patterns. You can play too tight against a fish, and they'll bully you off hands. The key is to loosen up your "image"... not your play. Pick your spots to bluff. Your opponents will tell you when they're susceptible to it. You've just got to look for it.

Monty

01-12-2005, 12:41 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Ohio

Posts: 10

What sort of hands are you losing with heads up?

What do the stacks usually look like?

How do the opponents usually treat you?

Well last time heads up the first 3 hands i had something good.
Pocket Q's, raised $40 to slow play it "he folded"
Pocket 7's raised small amount, he folded.
Dont remember the cards but same result.

Then my cards dried up and i was getting pushed out of every pot.
The blinds were like $300/$400 and i only had enough for
about 5 or 6 hands. And i ended up foolishly calling his all
in with a pair of 8's and he had a straight.

How am i treated? Well they all think im a tight player but still
call me alot. So i guess thats where the bluffing dont work.
One player in particular likes to go all in alot and try to scare
people away. It bit him the butt this last game and he was 1st out

The stacks vary, one was really nice. I had "A" high flush and another
guy had "Q" high flush so i did good on that pot.

Molinero

01-12-2005, 03:06 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: In The General Vicinity of Dallas

Posts: 230

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty

Well last time heads up the first 3 hands i had something good.
Pocket Q's, raised $40 to slow play it "he folded"
Pocket 7's raised small amount, he folded.
Dont remember the cards but same result...

I think what 'rilla is asking (correct/slap me if i'm wrong) is whether your premium hands are getting beaten by premium hands, etc.

If you're playing AQ, are you getting outkicked by AK when you flop an ace? Are people tripping their pocket pairs and you're not seeing it? Are you not letting go of your AK or AQ when the time is right? Are you betting with a flush or straight at a paired board?

Or are these guys calling your raises with shite hands and catching two pair?You get KK, they get Q2, board is Q-9-2, and you figure your top pair is pretty damn good, for example? Are they catching backdoor draws?

And so on.

"We thought you was a toad!"
-- O Brother Where Art Thou?

Monty

01-12-2005, 03:55 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Ohio

Posts: 10

Being specific is one of my lesser qualities

I loose very few times with premium hands.
Heads up and bluffing are my two main problems i see.

Sed

01-12-2005, 03:58 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

Someone posted a nice set of heads-up articles a little bit ago. I think they were on ultimatebet's site. Maybe a few online heads up practice rounds might be in order.

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

a500lbgorilla

01-12-2005, 05:09 PM

#10 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

I think you're only raising with pairs and high cards when it's heads up so your opponent knows never to call any of your raises. (Well, if you raise weak, I'd call on implied odds but that's another story.) You need to play a lot more hands when you're heads up. And you need to play more hands for raises.

Go through the tourny section. I'm sure heads up strategy has been discussed in more detail.

Use the search feature.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

MyRedemption

01-14-2005, 04:09 AM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Cincinnati OH

Posts: 12

try this, next time your heads up go entirely on this maxim:

if its good enough to call, raise, if not, fold.

you'll play more agressively just by the nature, don't be scared away by it, trust in it, or at least doyle brunson, agressive players have the best of it...

Heads up thats all it is, mind games, switch speeds whenver it works, every 8-10 hands if need be, try putting yourself in your opponents shoes, what would you think he's thinking if you did something, just mess with him, less and less becomes cards the more you get into his head. Play your opponent, not your cards, and play agressively heads up at least, if not all the time

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