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A few 200nl hands for review

  
 
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bjsaust
Old 08-07-2009, 04:39 AM     Post subject: A few 200nl hands for review #1 (permalink)  
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Losing confidence in my play. Heres a few with questions:

Hand 1

28/23 with 9% 3bet higher from the blinds (2.5k mined about 100 on this table). 80%+ cbet inc in 3bet pots.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($384.76)
Hero (Button) ($288.30)
MP ($244.95)
BB ($302.05)
SB ($422.85)
CO ($200)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, 6
3 folds, Hero bets $5, SB raises $17, 1 fold, Hero calls $13

Flop: ($38) K, 4, 6 (2 players)
SB bets $23, Hero calls $23

Turn: ($84) 9 (2 players)
SB bets $55, Hero calls $55

River: ($194) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $192.30 (All-In)

Total pot: $194

Flop and turn both confused me. I know I have good equity but not really sure I want to stack off v's his stackoff range here. Then on turn I could just raise, but it feels really transparent. River is probably a bad shove, maybe only 1/2 pot it. I wasnt sure if he had AK or AA if his chance of calling changed much depending on size?


Hand 2

25/20 13% from UTG, 80% cbet 44% fold cbet to raise.


No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($207.20)
Hero (BB) ($287.92)
SB ($208.70)
MP ($196.60)
UTG ($452.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
UTG bets $6, 3 folds, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($13) Q, 3, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $8, Hero raises $24, UTG calls $16

Turn: ($61) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $44, UTG calls $44

River: ($149) A (2 players)
Hero bets $55

I have $213 left on river.


Flop isnt standard for me, but I'm trying to find spots to get more aggressive. River helps me, but seems like it either helps him more or scares him a lot.


Hand 3

Same guy from hand 1.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($501.60)
Hero (SB) ($353.15)
MP ($283.65)
BB ($343.92)
Button ($200)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, A
3 folds, Hero bets $5, BB calls $4

Flop: ($12) 2, K, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $8, BB calls $8

Turn: ($28) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $19, BB calls $19

River: ($66) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $27, Hero calls $27

Total pot: $120


I think standard until river. I figure on river a check could get bluffs from his missed draws, and that he'd bet all his Ks. Any value in a c/r or c/c best? Anyone prefer a bet instead?


Hand 4


CO is relatively new to the table, seems like a TAG (21/12 over 30 hands)

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($203)
SB ($201)
Button ($200)
UTG ($200)
MP ($210.74)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 4
UTG bets $6, MP calls $6, 2 folds, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($19) 4, 10, 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $15, Hero calls $15, 1 fold

Turn: ($49) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $31, Hero calls $31

River: ($111) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $55, Hero calls $55

Total pot: $221

Maybe got some FPS here from some threads recently. Felt like a c/r here would be super strong and scary, so decided to just c/c. Likewise on turn I thought either it'd scare him off, or maybe he's drawing to the flush and I can give him a chance to hit planning to c/r pretty much all rivers except the one that actually hit. Now I'm down to purely a bluff catcher and think I probably should fold in review? His value range for the whole hand is TX or TT+.
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Da GOAT
Old 08-07-2009, 07:55 AM #2 (permalink)  
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h1 - probably just standard

h2 - dislike, i c/c down as an overall plan but could fold to barrels.

h3 - bet turn bigger, gotta bet/fold river for a large bet

h4 - id prob c/r turn then. gotta c/f river
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BigPapi
Old 08-07-2009, 08:01 AM #3 (permalink)  
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totally agree w Da Goat. but:

H1: fold or 4bet pre?
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bjsaust
Old 08-07-2009, 08:14 AM #4 (permalink)  
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We're around 150bb deep so I thought taking a flop IP was probably best. 100bb I usually fold and occassionally 4bet.
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BigPapi
Old 08-07-2009, 08:20 AM #5 (permalink)  
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ah missed that. yes that strategy seems fine to me.
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minSim
Old 08-07-2009, 09:52 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Agree with Da Goat.

I think hand 1 and hand 4 are most interesting. It just feels like there's more value to get by taking other lines, but maybe I'm just results oriented. It's also something I can improve in myself.

I definately consider leading hand 4 on the flop.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 08-07-2009, 02:37 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 I think these were all misplayed except...

H1: This all actually seems fine.

H2: c/c or lead/fold flop.

H3: Bet river

H4: I'd just go ahead and c/r flop. As played fold river.
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mcatdog
Old 08-07-2009, 02:48 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
H2: c/c or lead/fold flop.
What, really? Isn't a big part of the value in leading to induce random spaz raises?
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jyms
Old 08-07-2009, 03:55 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 I agree with most of this, keeping in mind on hand 4 if your raising NFD's on the flop, then raising sets are a great balance. If your not raising made hands on flops then what else raises?
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Renton
Old 08-07-2009, 03:57 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 1) seems fine

2) flop is good vs utg 5 handed, but six handed I think would be a slight overplay. C/c is good too on a board that he's likely to barrel. Lead seems pretty not good. Bet more on turn, bet more on river. Its the ace of spades, theres no way he has a flush, dude.

3) More on turn of course. My first instinct on the river was to bet for sure, but you have an interesting point about the fact that he's pretty likely to bet any hand that calls in addition to a few bluffs (seldom though). That said, he probably wouldn't value bet as largely as you would (hence less +ev for you). Another interesting point in favor of checking is if you think he's capable of turning hands into bluffs and shoving the river when you bet (hence putting you in a very tough spot here, if thats not a tough spot and you are definitely bet calling, then no worries with betting).

4) i'd lead flop with nearly 100% frequency, as played I'd play it like you did and fold river
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griffey24
Old 08-07-2009, 04:26 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 - seems fine

Hand 2 - I'd rather c/r AQ on this board vs an MP/LP raiser than an UTG open. I'd just c/c down.

Hand 3 - I don't mind the river check actually. Given action up till river, and his sizing, if I was checking river it would be with the intention of c/r river. I don't think he has > two pair on the turn, and he prob won't fold trips here. If we're not c/r, then I'd rather just bet.

Hand 4 - c/r flop. As played fold riv.
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pocketfours
Old 08-07-2009, 05:22 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 My head started hurting when I glanced through and saw you call flop with set and monster draw, but then c/r TPTK against UTG raise.
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Renton
Old 08-07-2009, 05:25 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
My head started hurting when I glanced through and saw you call flop with set and monster draw, but then c/r TPTK against UTG raise.
vastly different situations and his play was perfect in both hands (other than not leading flop in the set hand)
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pocketfours
Old 08-07-2009, 06:42 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours
My head started hurting when I glanced through and saw you call flop with set and monster draw, but then c/r TPTK against UTG raise.
vastly different situations and his play was perfect in both hands (other than not leading flop in the set hand)
I can't say I share your enthusiasm.
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Renton
Old 08-07-2009, 07:08 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 i think A6 draw flop call is optimal but one could argue for raising

in the set hand, while c/ring might be more +ev in a vacuum than c/cing, leading is better than both, so i believe that your variable strategy here should be to lead and play strongly, and mix it up by slowplaying and c/c. C/ring flop doesn't accomplish anything deceptively, and theres nothing wrong with not having a c/r range at all in this spot.

the c/r with AQ on Qxx vs a hijack open seemed best
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:50 PM #16 (permalink)  
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I think c/r with TPTK might be optimal on that board if the guy thinks you're c/ring dry boards light or that you c/r flush draws on this board (both are good to do)

the flop call with a monster draw is also optimal because we have showdown value and sometimes we'll get to show down a pair
we're flipping with a king and he almost never folds one to a flop raise unless he 3bs Kxs light oop and we beat every 6, as well as light 3bs with small pps (unless he flopped a set)
but I'd prefer a raise on the turn because people expect you to felt your exact hand on the flop so a ship on the turn is EXACTLY why we flatted the flop in the first place - we have a lot of deceptive value because nobody can put us on a flush draw after we smooth call
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bjsaust
Old 08-07-2009, 10:55 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Wow, some really good responses in here guys, thanks!

H2 - I agree totally with c/c being best line, there was some dynamic between us but probably not enough. Rentons point about the A meaning he's much less likely to have the flush is awesome, that completely escaped me both at the time and even reviewing.

H3 - I normally bet bigger, I think this guy had been calling flop folding to biggish turn bets a lot which is why I made it slightly smaller, but I even so I agree bigger is better.

H4 - I think is the most interesting which seems the case with the variety of responses. This was the thread that came to mind: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...78.html#919643 where Nuts and Renton both talk about how flatting flop with both sets and draws should be standard. Is the 1 less player in here what changes things, or the fact the board is more coordinated?
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AnTman_69
Old 08-08-2009, 01:45 AM #18 (permalink)  
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The major difference between my hand and your 44 hand, is that your OOP and can't control the size of the pot as well. Villian could easily c/b this turn which would suck.
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Old 08-08-2009, 02:07 AM #19 (permalink)  
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 Not to mention in Antman's hand, Antman was in fact the PFR. In which case to raise the preflop raiser's cbet in a 4 way pot shows enormous strength. In your hand, the PFR had already checked the flop, indicating a fair amount of weakness. So whereas in antmans hand if villain would have raised, he would have had 2 other villains left to act that would presumably check the majority of their range to the PFR.
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Irisheyes
Old 08-08-2009, 02:58 AM #20 (permalink)  
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1) Fine

2) I probably c/c the flop but I think c/r is fine. He probably has like 12 combo's of Qx and only about 4 or 5 flushes so I think you can get away with bet/folding a bit bigger on the river.

3) Yeah bet/fold river.

4) Add me to the lead camp. I always get folds though but I guess I don't balance this nearly as well as I should.
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bjsaust
Old 08-08-2009, 03:00 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Lead used to be standard for me in hand 4, changed because of that thread but I see differences.
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Irisheyes
Old 08-08-2009, 03:02 AM #22 (permalink)  
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I didn't see that thread I don't think. I'll have a look now.
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Irisheyes
Old 08-08-2009, 03:05 AM #23 (permalink)  
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Can't find it. Anyone got a link?
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bigspenda73
Old 08-08-2009, 04:01 AM #24 (permalink)  
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 anyone c/r TPTK in that spot and then check the turn?
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bjsaust
Old 08-08-2009, 11:25 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I didn't see that thread I don't think. I'll have a look now.
I posted it in one of my replies: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...78.html#919643
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