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Facing a check/shove from a lag

  
 
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:21 AM     Post subject: Facing a check/shove from a lag #1 (permalink)  
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Villain is a spewy lag reg. I marked him as a maniac, but he was on several of my tables so I'm assuming he's a reg who just loves blowing people out of pots with sheer aggression. I couldn't tell whether he was awesome or bad, it's kind of hard with these overly aggressive types.
his stats are 27/20/8.8 (3b) and aggression factor is 3.2 which is kind of high considering he's in like auto-float mode
(so basically villain is identical to me)

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) ($100)
Button ($222.15)
SB ($100)
BB ($100)
UTG ($115.90)
MP ($219.20)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7, Q
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, Hero bets $4.50, Button calls $4.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($11.50) A, 3, A (2 players)
Hero bets $5, Button calls $5

Turn: ($21.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button calls $10

River: ($41.50) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $20, Button raises to $202.65 (All-In), Hero ?

so on the river I am like holy shit this is like the sickest vbet ever because his hand range is like {small pocket pairs} so if I bet he'll snap me with like 99
but then he shoves and the only hands he could really be repping are 33 and 44
because which aces is he going to flat PF, call two streets and valueshove the river with? especially since my bet size is hella gay and if I have a frush draw I'd actually be block betting with correct odds/implied odds to the flush vs. his trips
considering I think villain is out of his mind, is this like a snapcall?
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Da GOAT
Old 06-29-2009, 09:00 AM #2 (permalink)  
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u shud have an idea of his utg limping range to iso here. so i fold pre

id bet a few more on flop, dont like turn bet size, id vb river about same if not like $14-16.

super std fold now
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Irisheyes
Old 06-29-2009, 09:27 AM #3 (permalink)  
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If you're gonna barrel the turn with a high frequency than you should bet more on the flop as long as you don't think his calling range will change significantly, and I doubt it will in this spot as long as you don't bet like $11.

idk what you're trying to do on the turn you need to bet bigger there with your whole range.

River is too thin imo unless you bet like $8 or some shit or you have a big history of trippling but I don't like betting small because we induce far too often.
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minSim
Old 06-29-2009, 10:00 AM #4 (permalink)  
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You really should have thought about it before you decided to bet the river.

It's a fold imo.
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Luke999
Old 06-29-2009, 11:48 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Urgh. It's one of those situations where your against a total spewtard and their range is pretty polarized and you click call and see like A4.

However I feel if he was gonna try get you off the hand he'd raise the flop or turn? Unless he is a thinking spewtard

I'd say fold.
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Old 06-29-2009, 12:39 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
u shud have an idea of his utg limping range to iso here. so i fold pre

id bet a few more on flop, dont like turn bet size, id vb river about same if not like $14-16.

super std fold now
utg is a fish, I don't mind playing a pot IP vs. UTG
villain is on bu
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Dex
Old 06-29-2009, 01:21 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Your bet sizing on the flop, turn and kind of on the river screams weak value and bet/fold to me, and if he's the aggro sort looking for opportunities to take pots away then there's every chance he picked up on that and put your range here under pressure. In particular, you noted that your betting was effectively giving you odds to draw to a flush. If he thinks that's a big part of your range here, shoving over bets on non-club rivers seems an option for him.

I guess a few questions based on your thoughts on him:

Do you think he has it in him to try to push you off a weak Ace?

Do you think he would raise QcTc or QcJc on the flop?

What hands are you willing to call with here that aren't full houses?

I'm not denying that you're going to get pwned in this spot sometimes, but I'm not convinced it's a super snap fold because he has to expect a lot of your range to fold here, including any Qx (which isn't a bad card to fire a third barrel on?) so this seems a sick and potentially profitable spot for a river bluff from villain.
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griffey24
Old 06-29-2009, 03:47 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 I don't really think this is a great triple barrel spot. You should be more inclined to triple barrel in a spot where villain's call down range is weak, rather than a spot where their calling range can have a lot of nut'ish type hands that aren't folding.

As played, like other comments suggest, I'd bet more on the turn for sure. River decision is tough to just say. It's probably mostly a feel/timing kind of spot, where you should have a read earlier on in the hand as to how strong or weak he is and go with that.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 c/f flop

this hand is terrible wtf r u doing, c/f river
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oskar
Old 06-29-2009, 04:04 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 I wouldn't iso and I wouldn't c-bet. He has a pretty narrow gap between vpip and pfr... It would be interesting to know at least one hands that he has open limped that he has shown down... or even if you saw him open small pp's, then I think it's pretty likely that he's doing this with strong hands sometimes to fuck with people who ISO WITH ATC.

*caugh*

As played... against an aggro opponent, I don't want to get into a war here, I'd just check back on a paired flop.
I think on the river he has QQ, 33, 44, AA, AQ and pretty much nothing else.
Do you really need someone to tell you that a 5x pot shove on the river is more likely to be a misclick than a bluff.
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bigred
Old 06-30-2009, 01:44 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:12 AM #12 (permalink)  
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I don't think there's value on the river. He prolly doesnt snap with 99 here..unless hes A station of some kind. Umm...yeah this hand is pretty bad, u have like no equity on the flop or turn turn. I'd rather c/c riv to induce....but i highly doubt he's betting with worse here.
c/f flop.
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Old 06-30-2009, 03:17 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by oskar
I wouldn't iso and I wouldn't c-bet. He has a pretty narrow gap between vpip and pfr... It would be interesting to know at least one hands that he has open limped that he has shown down... or even if you saw him open small pp's, then I think it's pretty likely that he's doing this with strong hands sometimes to fuck with people who ISO WITH ATC.

*caugh*

As played... against an aggro opponent, I don't want to get into a war here, I'd just check back on a paired flop.
I think on the river he has QQ, 33, 44, AA, AQ and pretty much nothing else.
Do you really need someone to tell you that a 5x pot shove on the river is more likely to be a misclick than a bluff.
1. I already said, UTG is a fish, villain is on the button, we're not concerned with the open-limper, we're concerned with the button
2. QQ, AA when he is 3bing 8.8%? Are you saying he only 3bs garbage and slowplays big hands? That is so unlikely I don't even know what to say. I've already listed the reasons why I think it's unlikely he would slowplay an ace for two streets since I'm betting so small so although he has some Ax combos, they're slightly discounted
3. it's not a 5xpot shove, I have a 100BB stack, I've put in 20 already so the pot after his call would be 80, and he is raising 60 which is a 75% psb shove
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zook
Old 06-30-2009, 03:38 AM #14 (permalink)  
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I don't like your sizing but I think it induces some spazzy river shoves from a villain like you described so snap that shit.
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dsaxton
Old 06-30-2009, 04:16 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Easiest fold ever. This is pretty spewtastic on all streets, especially the turn.
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bigred
Old 06-30-2009, 05:09 AM #16 (permalink)  
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