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will641
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08-29-2008, 06:08 AM
Post subject: facing 3-bet monkeys
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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i was playing HU, and this guy was just literally 3-betting me like 70% of the time. how do you adjust to that when you think he will just 5-bet when you 4-bet bluff? is there anything to do be raise tighter and just call more?
edit: also he didnt really slow down post flop.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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limp the button?
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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4-bet lighter for value (call shove) and start to limp the button with mediocre hands you want to see a flop with. Don't 4-bet very big hands to make your 3-bet call range stronger. Don't fold top pair in 3-bet pots.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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minraise button also to make calling his 3bet easier too.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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also obv leave table
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
also obv leave table
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why? someone who is 3 betting 70 percent of the time is super exploitable. specially if they r super agro post flop. just play alot of pots in position through limping /minraising as youve already mentioned. just flat his 3 bets with your big pairs and play for stacks alot lighter both preflop and post. sure it has some variance to it but id much prefer to play this guy than a nit.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
also obv leave table
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worst suggestion ever
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
also obv leave table
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lol
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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My standard adjustments (choose one or multiple):
1) fold buttons with bottom 10-20% of hands
2) minraise the button
3) flat 3-bets with any two over T, Kxs and Axs. Flat big pairs as well unless you feel a 4-bet will get paid off
4) 4-bet only as a bluff at very good game flow times
5) Flat most flop c-bets even with monsters and strong hands on drawy boards. Float some and bet turn and/or river as bluffs when you think it's good to.
6) Realize that what he is doing is a mistake and by playing correctly game theory wise preflop and on the flop (#3 and #5) you will take money from him because he is making a huge mistake.
7) Try as hard as you can not to get frustrated
personally i don't like limping but i don't think it's bad in this situation.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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If you dont know how to adjust then leaving the table is a pretty safe option. I dont know why so many people lol at that. Its a much better idea than letting someone run all over you.
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Just playing to improve.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
If you dont know how to adjust then leaving the table is a pretty safe option. I dont know why so many people lol at that. Its a much better idea than letting someone run all over you.
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It's just pretty easy money if you know what to do against it.
but you're right.
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kapilalink
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 61
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Massimo is right on point imo. Although today I was playing someone that made me think a little deeper about this subject. Basically he would start out playing pretty standard, but every time I won a decent size pot he would STEAM HARD either 3 betting huge or 3 bet shoving for 100-200 bbs.
Although if I tightened up what so ever preflop he would calm down and stop spewing pre. I realized that as long as I kept min raising every hand on button he would stay tilted until I could finally pick up a hand. I guess all I'm trying to say is that if notice that you're doing something that is annoying your opponent enough to make him make huge mistakes, then keep it up!!!!! Just something to think about.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kapilalink
I guess all I'm trying to say is that if notice that you're doing something that is annoying your opponent enough to make him make huge mistakes, then keep it up!!!!! Just something to think about.
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This is a great point
The interesting thing about playing against 50BB stacks hu though is that if you raise 3x otb every hand, your opponent (and i don't know the math on this, just a guess though) can probably shove over on the first hands profitably with like 50% of hands if you are only calling like AT+, 88+. This makes me believe it has to be optimal to minraise the first 10 hands against less than 60BB stacks, and you may adjust to 3x if he isn't 3-betting.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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sowwy, i skimmed OP. i assumed opp was good.
*cry*
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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well its not too far from optimal to raise a range of JJ+ AK otb in this situation, so work from there
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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70% threebet % is gigantically exploitable. You have a lot of choices. I wouldn't drastically change my strategy or anything besides tightening up a shit ton on the button. If we minraise he may stop making that mistake. Just raise like 25-30% of hands on the button.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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min raising really didnt slow him down at all.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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You don't want to slow this guy down.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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massimo (9:20:46 AM): you know AK, AQs, and 99+
massimo (9:20:55 AM): is 3.8% of hands?
massimo (9:23:40 AM): that if you have someone 3-betting 20% of hands
massimo(9:23:48 AM): and he's stacking off with that
massimo(9:23:56 AM): you can just 4-bet shove any pair or Axs
massimo (9:24:08 AM): and you'll win 10BB's 5/6 times
massimo(9:24:18 AM): while getting it in with 31% equity the rest of the time
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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leaving the table isnt a bad idea at all if you had to make this thread. not sure why people dismissed that.
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Bmxicle
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
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If he's going to 5bet bluff your 4bets then AT and 77 become the nuts when you 4bet them. Also just call and use your position to exploit the hell out of him. You'll end up having to play for stacks with middle pair at times if he won't slow down postflop, but it's still wildly profitable.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
massimo (9:20:46 AM): you know AK, AQs, and 99+
massimo (9:20:55 AM): is 3.8% of hands?
massimo (9:23:40 AM): that if you have someone 3-betting 20% of hands
massimo(9:23:48 AM): and he's stacking off with that
massimo(9:23:56 AM): you can just 4-bet shove any pair or Axs
massimo (9:24:08 AM): and you'll win 10BB's 5/6 times
massimo(9:24:18 AM): while getting it in with 31% equity the rest of the time
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don't know if it changes anything, but AK/AQs/99+ is 4.2% of hands.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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Pino_Diablo
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 64
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
leaving the table isnt a bad idea at all if you had to make this thread. not sure why people dismissed that.
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that's my thoughts too, if you aren't comfortable playing it, leave
no harm in that.
i'd take notes on what the seasoned players are saying here, but just stay in your comfort level with a player or leave. in a SnG you are stuck playing so use the advice. i think we can all mix it up, but knowing how and when separates the winners from losers.
patience has been a mantra for me...but the HU i play is NON turbo low SnG. so what do i know? haha
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