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bair
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08-18-2008, 12:10 AM
Post subject: experimenting w/ donking
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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ive pretty much never donk bet in my life, and i guess this is why because I really have no clue what to do when i get raised, which pretty much happens everytime. if i 3-bet i can be getting my money in real bad, and i dont know if i can fold to a 4-bet on a drawy board. and i really hate calling a raise then check-calling later streets. this is only the 20th hand in but he seems pretty damn tight. 30/27, i've been mixing it up between calling and 3-betting pre, he hasnt called a 3-bet yet. he probably views me as someone who is trying to take advantage of this. is there anyway to play these hands not blind? i definitely want to implement leading into the pfr into my game. my bet sizing seems kinda like i can fold to a 4-bet, but i dont know if thats good. if im NOT going to fold to a 4-bet, then isnt calling his raise and c/ring the turn better to get value from bluffs? but at the same time i dont think i want him to check behind the turn because theres a lot of cards that arent cool. is raising the flop a little bigger and snapping a 4th spew? i think on a q-high flop i should just call the flop and c/r the turn, and on a k-high w/ k9 i should 3-bet/fold. thoughts?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (2 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
saw flop|saw showdown
Hero ($103.70)
Button ($105.50)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , 9 .
Button raises to $3, Hero calls $2.
Flop: ($6.50) T, 6, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $4, Button raises to $13, Hero raises to $37???
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keepitstrict
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 54
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ur my hero bro
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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donk betting this hand on a dry flop wouldnt be bad, but on this flop, with all the obvious draws it just puts you in such a shit spot when he 3 bets you, youve basically illustrated above the main reasons why donk betting on this flop is bad. I personally would just check call and reevaluate on the turn.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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What I like doing is donking with absolute air the first time to gauge how he reacts to this play. A lot of people auto raise or give it a ton of respect. Once you figure out how he reacts you can adjust accordingly.
In this case I don't like the play cause you are lost if you are raised. I would just pot control here until you can gauge how to profitably donk into him.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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I donk lead with a pretty polarized range of really strong hands/draws or more airish type hands. If I'm donking with air I like to do it on boards that have obvious draws, that I can continue repping if they hit on turn or river.
Boards with flush draws are good to donk lead with a FD as well as air, as ppl will often put you on the FD once you donk, so they'll give your bet a lot of respect if the flush comes in on any street. Its also good to do this with a FD/air cause you don't mind getting raised in either of these spots. Air you can just fold, and FD you can jam over sometimes.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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I donk lead sometimes, almost always as bluff though unless gameflow dictates otherwise.
Against players playing a wide button range (ie raising every hand preflop), and then who check behind a lot of flops, you need to donk lead a lot into them. This is because your flop range is going to be so much stronger than there's that you want to make sure money is going into the pot on that street.
However, i have yet to play a player that checks behind enough to warrant tons of leading...
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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I donk bet the flop a lot with TP hands that I think the guy will check behind a lot of with showdown value (like on the board you bet out on). When I get raised I almost always flat and reeval
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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yeah im not really questioning my lead, it is certainly the right play a percentage of the time. im really looking for a detailed plan. fwiw i think check/calling to be the -ev easy way out. c/r and lead are the only lines. just because its difficult to play perfect doesnt mean that it isnt superior when played perfect. < made no sense.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bair
yeah im not really questioning my lead, it is certainly the right play a percentage of the time. im really looking for a detailed plan. fwiw i think check/calling to be the -ev easy way out. c/r and lead are the only lines. just because its difficult to play perfect doesnt mean that it isnt superior when played perfect. < made no sense.
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c/c is the superior line and better from a game theory standpoint. When you use ngood game theory you're going to have an easier time AND it will be the superior play... that';s what i mean.,
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Donk leading here is fine if.
1. You've been donking a good amount, sometimes as a bluff.
2. You don't expect opp to raise you here without a hand thats beating you
OR
You expect if opp does raise you without a hand, that he'll stop his bluff on the turn.
I'd c/c most of the time here though, but donking can be great for unbalancing ranges.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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3. If your opponent is checking a lot of flops behind.
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bair
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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ok..so lets assume all this was true. what am i doing on the flop and later streets after i get raised?
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