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an example of how not to play QQ.

  
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-28-2007, 07:56 PM     Post subject: an example of how not to play QQ. #1 (permalink)  
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villain is a 16 mutlitabling reg running 20/15/2

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $89.00
Hero: $98.50
CO: $189.50
Button: $195.50
SB: $355.50
BB: $40.02

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q Q
UTG raises to $4, Hero raises to $13.5, 4 folds, UTG calls.

pretty standard, so nothing wrong here

Flop: 4 K 5 ($28.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

debatable line i took here. i was trying to get value out of JJ/TT that would probably fold. KQ/AK own me, as does AA. it's probably good either way betting or checking.

Turn: 5 ($28.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $17.5, UTG raises to $36, Hero calls.

ok, so i don't get value, so might as well bet small and try to get value. the min-raise is a WTF. what could he possibly have? i can't fold, since i'm getting pretty good odds and my hand is most likely still good. big mistake #1...i called. this should have been push or fold.

River: 4 ($100.5, 2 players)
UTG is all-in $39.5, Hero calls.

mistake #2. because of mistake #1, i put myself in a position that i can't call profitably and i have no idea where i stand because of the pot size, villain has to push almost any 2 cards.

Results:
Final pot: $179.5
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Da GOAT
Old 07-28-2007, 08:04 PM     Post subject: Re: an example of how not to play QQ. #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
i can't fold, since i'm getting pretty good odds and my hand is most likely still good. [/color]
Really!!
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 07-28-2007, 08:05 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 You played it fine as long as you fold to the turn minraise.

I think a better line is bet/check/bet if checked to (fold if bet into)

Look, just never put anyone on bluffing a made hand, if they have to be bluffing a made hand for you to call, then don't call.
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Da GOAT
Old 07-28-2007, 08:11 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Look, just never put anyone on bluffing a made hand, if they have to be bluffing a made hand for you to call, then don't call.

ISF i just dont understand the wording you have used here, could you please rephase for me.
Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
 
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EzDuzIt
Old 07-28-2007, 08:26 PM #5 (permalink)  
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yeah i would bet the flop.
and i think you have to fold to the turn min raise.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 07-28-2007, 08:29 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da GOAT
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Look, just never put anyone on bluffing a made hand, if they have to be bluffing a made hand for you to call, then don't call.

ISF i just dont understand the wording you have used here, could you please rephase for me.
All Hyper is beating is a bluff from that minraise. In a threebet pot on this flop the only hand that Hyper is beating that isnt a made hand is AQ, the rest, which are underpairs, would have to be turning their pair into a bluff for Hyper to be winning here.
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Da GOAT
Old 07-28-2007, 08:30 PM #7 (permalink)  
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i guessing here and ive done it before.

i think your just getting a little greedy as you want to win more from JJ,TT etc. as ISF said bet/check/bet are better lines bcoz who says JJ,TT are folding to your c/b anyway.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 07-29-2007, 12:29 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 Not betting the flop is usually bad with a decent hand because you're going to get calls from JJ-66, 44-22 and may be floated with something like an AQ or a 78. Especially since you're going to bet the flop as a bluff here, like, everytime.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-29-2007, 02:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
You played it fine as long as you fold to the turn minraise.
unfortunately, this hand is posted verbatim from the original. i immediately quit after this hand.

villain had 64s. WTF!?!?!? he raises 64s UTG and calls a 3bet with that?!?!?!
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Ash256
Old 07-29-2007, 05:34 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
You played it fine as long as you fold to the turn minraise.
unfortunately, this hand is posted verbatim from the original. i immediately quit after this hand.

villain had 64s. WTF!?!?!? he raises 64s UTG and calls a 3bet with that?!?!?!
Isn't it fun when you have an hand like that where you feel like you and your opponent are thinking on the nth level and that this is what poker is all about and then you start going through the deepest thought process you can and it feels fucking cool and you're thinking "oh wow I can post this on FTR and the mid-stakes regs will check this hand and have some really good intricate discussion about it"...








... but then he flips 64.
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Halv
Old 07-29-2007, 05:39 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da GOAT
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Look, just never put anyone on bluffing a made hand, if they have to be bluffing a made hand for you to call, then don't call.
ISF i just dont understand the wording you have used here, could you please rephase for me.
All Hyper is beating is a bluff from that minraise. In a threebet pot on this flop the only hand that Hyper is beating that isnt a made hand is AQ, the rest, which are underpairs, would have to be turning their pair into a bluff for Hyper to be winning here.
So simple, yet so easy to overlook. It obv gets more tricky when we find ourselves up against players capable of doing just that, but as a rule of thumb this is great. It goes into my book of standard plays.

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gabe
Old 07-29-2007, 05:51 PM #12 (permalink)  
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life is easy when u bet the flop
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 07-29-2007, 05:56 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
life is easy when u bet the flop
Yeah you did this to yourself.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 07-29-2007, 07:11 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
life is easy when u bet the flop
how is this different if the following happened instead?

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K K
UTG raises to $4, Hero raises to $13.5, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 4 A 5 ($28.5, 2 players)



does the A really make that big of a difference over the K?
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bigspenda73
Old 07-29-2007, 07:14 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 I would imagine you have more Ax combos in your range than he does.
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KoRnholio
Old 07-29-2007, 11:32 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 Instead of starting a new thread, here's my QQ hand of the day:

I had been running pretty well, winning a lot of small-medium sized pots with cbets and well timed bluffs. What do I do against this 70BB stack's push here? I couldn't put him on much of a hand here since I think AK and 6x goes for more value instead of pushing for 2x the pot size. AdTd+ perhaps? Maybe an underpair?

Cryptologic - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $42.25
BB: $55.99
UTG: $40.00
MP: $70.30
CO: $35.51
Hero (BTN): $115.06

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q Q (6 Players)
UTG checks, MP folds, CO raises to $2.00, Hero raises to $6.00, 3 folds, CO calls $4.00

Flop: ($13.25) 6 K 6 (2 Players)
CO bets all-in for $29.51, Hero...
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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