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Irisheyes
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05-19-2009, 08:23 AM
Post subject: Ethics question: Hit and run at 6max?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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So the other day I'm playing 6max and there's a fish at the table and everyone else is regs. Fish sits out and leaves and I know there's better tables going so I uncheck auto-post and I'm going to leave when the BB comes around.
Then I get AA allin against KK preflop with another reg and double up and I still leave when my BB comes around.
So 1 min later he starts berating me on another table about how I hit and ran him and I'm a scumbag and blah blah BS. Now I seem to have gotten a reputation in the 2+2 regs thread for my site as some sort of multi-tabling 6max hit and runner or something.
So I ask you, is it possible to hit and run someone in a ring game or are they all being retarded?
I would argue that hit and running doesn't even exist because long run blah blah. The only issue is if someone sits with you HU, stacks you and then never ever plays you again then you never get to realise your true equity against that person.
But at 6max? Like ffs we're on 4 other 6max tables together already how is it possible to hit and run you?
Or am I just not understanding this whole hit and run thing or something?
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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You decided to leave before you took his stack. You´re multitabling regularly and dont refuse to play him as long the tables arent teh suck. Dunno what hes bitching about.
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Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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No, hit and running would be when you join someone's table that is heads up, proceed to cooler them set over set and leave the next hand.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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definitely not unethical. what people want to call a hit and run is up to them, i mean you did stack him and then leave, but theres absolutely nothing wrong with what you did.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Nah, there's nothing wrong with it externally.
FWIW do you mind when somenone doubles through you and is gone before the next orbit?
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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I was playing today and stacked a reg in a 3 bet pot when I was just about to leave the table and end my session, I had sitout next hand ticked etc. I didn't want to seem like a douche by insta leaving even though the game had gotten down to 3 handed vs him and another villain who were both decent so I told villain that was supposed to be my last hand but I'd play on anyway for a short period of time as to not seem like I was hit and running.
What you did wasn't unethical but I'd have probs explained to him the situation and played for another 5 mins regardless.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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if its vs a reg i play with alot i'll say something like sorry, already had autopost blinds off or something, but what you did is def not wrong.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I'd do it. I probably have. I also dont know that it really matters if you get a rep for it on 2+2. I mean, what are they going to do, leave a table with a fish on it when you sit? Stack you on a table with a live fish still sitting and leave?
I've been anal lately about leaving as soon as the fish do. If I happen to pick up a big pot while playing my free hands before blinds then thats just a bonus, I dont change my plan.
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Just playing to improve.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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how can he be mad when you're still playing him on 4 other tables? :S
I usually play one more round though, but i dont think you really have to...
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I voted yes. I do have one 6max "hit and run" situation that bothers me though... table breaks but you get dealt a HU hand when you're pretty sure neither you or the other reg is going to stick around to play HU and wait for the tbl to fill up. Other reg steals your BB then sits out. Just blow it off? If the situation's reversed and I steal the BB, I always play one more hand, let the reg steal my BB then sit out again. Overly ethical? Overly anal?
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Quote:
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Now I seem to have gotten a reputation in the 2+2 regs thread for my site as some sort of multi-tabling 6max hit and runner or something.
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link to thread plz
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Zook, I'm sure I've done that to people and it's been done to me tons of times. I never really realised it could be an issue.
I mean, if you steal his BB. Next hand you plan on letting him steal yours but you get dealt AA are you folding when he raises??
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
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I think it's ridiculous for him to make a big deal out of it if you're both regs because it's not like you guys aren't gunna play again at another table very soon (or you already are). I mean as if he's not table selecting also or something...
It's not like you're some 1-tabling donk who just took his stack & quit/withdrew.
He's just pissed he got coolered and is looking for something to bitch about.
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Lucothefish
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cretaceous Park
Posts: 703
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Just type "mmm, ur money smells like cookies" in the chat box, it's only polite.
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<@d0zer> how will you learn if I don't berate you harshly?
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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I don't really care what others say. I'm playing this game for myself and I want every advantage that I can get. I'm trying to make as much money as possible, while also learning as much as possible. If I don't feel the table in my favor, then too bad for them?
"YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME" -Herm Edwards
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Pretty lol definition of hit and run. If he'sa somewhat competent player he'd realize why most were at the table to begin with. Plus, like what has already been said, you're grinding away at other tables. He's just whining about a cooler.
I'm pretty sure one guy bitching won't get you a rep as a hit and runner. And even if he does, it'll be pretty short lived as everyone will quickly see you don't play that way.
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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I think worrying about ethics and online poker is a ridiculous notion. Even more ridiculous is caring about your image by a forum populated by ornery math nerds. FWIW, I would have sat at every table that guy has for some tilt monies.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,608
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Def don't fret it. You obviously don't play hit and run poker, you were simply moving from a table that wasn't as +EV as other tables you can find. And you had already made that decision before you took his stack, not that it matters.
I will admit I hate players that sit HU and hit and run, but oh well. Nothing you can do about it.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I'm not worried about it per se, I just wanted to make sure my thinking was correct before I started ripping on people over there.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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I hit and run all the time. It's my money, fuck 'em.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I hit and run all the time. It's my money, fuck 'em.
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This
Although yesterday a guy literally spent 30 minutes heckling me because I stole his $2 big blind and then quit. He sat at all my other tables and wouldn't let me play until I gave him his $2 back. What didn't make much was sense is that he was one of the better regs... I basically told him he was a loser and leave me alone but I still find it amusing none-the-less.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,608
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I hit and run all the time. It's my money, fuck 'em.
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This
Although yesterday a guy literally spent 30 minutes heckling me because I stole his $2 big blind and then quit. He sat at all my other tables and wouldn't let me play until I gave him his $2 back. What didn't make much was sense is that he was one of the better regs... I basically told him he was a loser and leave me alone but I still find it amusing none-the-less. |
Please tell me this was BiggieSmalls? Not sure if he falls into the category of "better regs", but I've seen him do this a few times, and once to me. Not the chasing around sitting at numerous tables, but the whining when someone takes his blind and then leaves.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Its not necessarily etiquette but all of that fall into the categories of class and respect. You definitely didn't do anything wrong but in a situation like this I'd just play another orbit or 2. As for the big blind thing if its vs another reg that I respect I'm not gonna steal his bb then sit out.
Its small things like this that lead to bigger issues like insta sitting out when a fish leaves or sitting out waiting for a big fish to show up or ridiculous bum hunting hu that is bad for the games.
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TonyB73
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 414
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You did nothing wrong. If it was me I'd probably have stayed for one more orbit, but I have no problem with what you did.
HU sucks, as people have said, and I also hate when people sit at a 6-max table with 20BBs, fold every hand until they get dealt a premium, which they shove and leave as soon as they double up. I have trouble articulating why its not right, but it irritates the f*ck out of me. Obviously they don't have the confidence in their game to play with a real stack, so to be honest it probably just annoys me that an uber fish is limiting the amount of money I can take from him!
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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voted not unethical. i used to care about it. but, i dont anymore. big deal. ask him if he would have stuck around and given you your money back had situations reversed? guarantee you his answer would be the same as Fnord's.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Although yesterday a guy literally spent 30 minutes heckling me because I stole his $2 big blind and then quit. He sat at all my other tables and wouldn't let me play until I gave him his $2 back.
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If it's not nailed to the table...
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Zook, I'm sure I've done that to people and it's been done to me tons of times. I never really realised it could be an issue.
I mean, if you steal his BB. Next hand you plan on letting him steal yours but you get dealt AA are you folding when he raises??
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The situation I'm complaining about is when a 6max table breaks, it's suddenly HU with another reg, they steal my BB and then sit out. I don't follow these regs around berating them, but I do make a comment in chat. And sometimes they'll let me steal their blind back after I mention it. I personally won't take advantage of position in this situation if I'm only going to play that one hand. So if I'm dealt a premium and raise it up, then I'm committing to playing for awhile (until my opp quits or the table fills up).
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Zook, I'm sure I've done that to people and it's been done to me tons of times. I never really realised it could be an issue.
I mean, if you steal his BB. Next hand you plan on letting him steal yours but you get dealt AA are you folding when he raises??
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The situation I'm complaining about is when a 6max table breaks, it's suddenly HU with another reg, they steal my BB and then sit out. I don't follow these regs around berating them, but I do make a comment in chat. And sometimes they'll let me steal their blind back after I mention it. I personally won't take advantage of position in this situation if I'm only going to play that one hand. So if I'm dealt a premium and raise it up, then I'm committing to playing for awhile (until my opp quits or the table fills up). |
if you mentioned it to me, I'd sit in and insta-3b you
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Zook i would vote "overly anal" if you had a poll. I see people bitching about this on 2p2 all the time, but really, if we're all properly rolled for the games we're playing, whether its 1/2 or 50/100, is loosing 1 blind going to kill you? If you just played it honestly, but only played 1 hand each time, it would almost definitely even out in the long run.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Kijjo
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 554
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Ofcourse sitting for another orbit would usually keep folks from acting ridiculous. Another option - just sit out for a while... then leave. Ever try this? If you sit out, they don't know why - maybe you spilled your coffee - bathroom break - fell out of your chair laughing at his cooler, whatever. I'll bet after you fill a seat with your SITTING OUT for an orbit or two they'll be happy you finally left the table. 
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...He sat at all my other tables and wouldn't let me play until I gave him his $2 back....
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How exactly does this work? How does he keep you from playing?
There's a mute option for a reason. I'd tell him I was muting him just to tick him off more.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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what is far worse that this is the tables with 5 "regs" that immediately all sit out when i fish sits out. i mean, i am all for aggressive table selection, but people take it a little far. and its not like the fish wont notice when the entire table sits out.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,468
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I really don't get why this guy is bitching about it when he himself was probably gonna leave when his BB came around. The notion of the hit n run at 6m is dumb you did nothing wrong.
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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Oh, and by the way. I couldn't help myself and picked "you are retarded."
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
what is far worse that this is the tables with 5 "regs" that immediately all sit out when i fish sits out. i mean, i am all for aggressive table selection, but people take it a little far. and its not like the fish wont notice when the entire table sits out.
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oh that's terrible, we should continue paying the site rake so we don't hurt the fish's feelings
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
what is far worse that this is the tables with 5 "regs" that immediately all sit out when i fish sits out. i mean, i am all for aggressive table selection, but people take it a little far. and its not like the fish wont notice when the entire table sits out.
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oh that's terrible, we should continue paying the site rake so we don't hurt the fish's feelings |
lol, you're probably one of the people that are scared to play and orbit or 2 with a table full of regs. and i dont mind it when people leave a table after a fish LEAVES the table, but when a fish sits out, and then 3-4 "regs" immediately sit out its super gay. Do you honestly think fish don't realize whats going on? I think this is the sole reason YL08DW quit donating at FTP after dumping like a quarter million at 1/2 and 2/4.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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or maybe he just ran out of money?
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Wow the fact that people don't understand why insta sitting out when the fish sits out is terrible for the games tilts the fuck out of me. It's obv not that prevalent at small stakes but you better figure out why its important as you move up.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Yeah, enormous difference between a fish leaving a table and them sitting out. People seem to think that just because a fish is bad at poker, that they're stupid in RL or something. This is no better than berating the fish for bad play, in fact its probably worse since it gives the impression the whole table is out to get them.
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Just playing to improve.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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just let each person play their button and I think its ethical
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Wow the fact that people don't understand why insta sitting out when the fish sits out is terrible for the games tilts the fuck out of me. It's obv not that prevalent at small stakes but you better figure out why its important as you move up.
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Mos def
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
just let each person play their button and I think its ethical
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yes
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by meeloche
Wow the fact that people don't understand why insta sitting out when the fish sits out is terrible for the games tilts the fuck out of me. It's obv not that prevalent at small stakes but you better figure out why its important as you move up.
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i've seen it more and more at ssnl over the last 6 months or so, so its trickling down.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kijjo
How exactly does this work? How does he keep you from playing?
There's a mute option for a reason. I'd tell him I was muting him just to tick him off more. |
Playing HU I'm at a few tables and as players come and go he'd sit down and sit out waiting to play me. I could hide myself from search but that'd only work long enough for him to go through the tables and find me which wouldn't take that long.
He eventually gave up but he should have realized it wasn't intentional and I'm not out there trying to get that extra $2 from him. I don't know what determines who acts first when a new player joins and if he were the one on the button and he raised then i wouldn't ask for my money back if him or i sat out.
He threatened to send his online 'friends' at me until I play, there might have been a chance where 1-2 of them sat down but not that I noticed or anything.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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i have no idea if this has been said, but my stance is this: you are a multi tabling reg and youre on 6-9+ tables, if they want to come and find you on another table, then theyre absolutely welcome to.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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