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kmind
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07-15-2009, 07:18 PM
Post subject: Dumb 3-bet 100NL What Now?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Ok the 3-bet is bad. No need to talk about it. Villain is 22/17/4 and folds to 3bets 50% over my dumb sample of 55 hands. Fold flop?
Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (Button) ($100.70)
SB ($126)
BB ($128.85)
UTG ($100.90)
MP ($101.85)
Preflop: Hero is Button with J , T
UTG bets $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9, SB calls $8.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $6
Flop: ($28) 2, 5, J (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $18, Hero calls $18, 1 fold
Turn: ($64) 3 (2 players)
UTG bets $23
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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yeah id fold flop
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Sir Pawnalot
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
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He fold to 3-bet 50%-that means his range is fairly weak and consists of much more than overpairs and we have decent E vs non-heart overpairs. Many combos of AK and AQ with one heart.
I would definitely call the turn as played. But I hate 3-betting his hand vs UTG raiser which makes this hand difficult to play.
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A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Yeah preflop is bad but we have barely any hands on him so can't really say much about his 3bet calling range
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Sir Pawnalot
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
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His bets are pretty small and we have tp + fd. If we call flop, which I think we should (or raise), there is no reason to fold turn.
Since we have little information yo could argue for a raise on the flop or turn.
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A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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at worse, he's block betting an Ah. He has at least 30% equity, and you calling all these bets are just not helping yours.
Yea, when 3betting to take shit down don't get caught up after the flop playing TP hands like this. AJ, JJ, AhKx are all in that calling range. Your flipping or smoked on this flop.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot
His bets are pretty small and we have tp + fd. If we call flop, which I think we should (or raise), there is no reason to fold turn.
Since we have little information yo could argue for a raise on the flop or turn.
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This was basically my thoughts on the hand at the time and have since been explained that this is bad and his range is actually scary as shit. I mean he leads out against 3 players and is betting small on the turn (not looking for folds).
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot
His bets are pretty small and we have tp + fd. If we call flop, which I think we should (or raise), there is no reason to fold turn.
Since we have little information yo could argue for a raise on the flop or turn.
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This was basically my thoughts on the hand at the time and have since been explained that this is bad and his range is actually scary as shit. I mean he leads out against 3 players and is betting small on the turn (not looking for folds). |
FWIW I think this is way different to your normal donkbet because it's open season on the fish
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I think the issue here is that if you call flop you pretty much should call 3 barrels, and do we really want to do that? Interested in your thoughts on ranges kmind.
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Just playing to improve.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Eek. I can't really say these were my ranges because this hand was discussed with ISF but basically his range is very very tight as I said. I think he has AJ/AhKh/AhQh/AhKx/AhQx/JJ/55/22. He didn't give me a set range but was just like his range is crazy tight don't call flop. He even said fold turn after calling flop.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I think this is probably one place where I get my ranges wrong. If its really that tight I probably make a bunch of mistakes. Thanks.
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Just playing to improve.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bjsaust
I think the issue here is that if you call flop you pretty much should call 3 barrels, and do we really want to do that? Interested in your thoughts on ranges kmind.
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Why can't you call the flop and fold later? He may be betting enough hands on the flop to warrant calling (which I would do), but when he bets again after getting called, he usually has something strong, so you can fold.
And folding the flop seems bad. The guy could be betting 9h-9 or the Ah for all we know.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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i think you have to call turn getting crazy odds. I think flop is borderline, so I'd call.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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yeah his range is probably THAT tight. We're only ahead of his semi-bluffing range and not even that much, this seems like a way behind/marginally ahead situation with position/iniative in villains hands. fold flop seems fine to me.
If you call flop I cant fold turn either.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
i think you have to call turn getting crazy odds. I think flop is borderline, so I'd call.
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Yah I agree with his. I was somewhat convinced on his strength on the flop but after his turn sizing I'm feeling more Axh pricing itself than anything.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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or he could be betting just enough to ship river
are we calling river on a blank or a heart?
if not, do we expect him to shut down here after sizing turn this way?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
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no we aren't calling river unless its a J/T
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,766
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calling down here is pretty donkyish... dont see whats so hard about folding this flop other than zomg we got TP!
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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Kid Style
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 59
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Doesn't anyone else think this guy has flopped the flush?? Probably Ah-Qh. Not only is he betting into 2 people, the turn bet seems like value towning against your top pair to get ready for shove river as well.
But yeah, fold flop is probably best
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