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Dramatic perspective change hand

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IowaSkinsFan

11-03-2009, 01:48 AM Post subject: Dramatic perspective change hand

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,147

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

Opp is tsifknits who is generally nitty preflop and is pretty solid postflop. I had this hand while i was screwing around killing time at 200nl. I've been playing aggro, but he mass multis prob didnt even notice besides my preflop stats which may be showing something like 40/36. I think flop, turn, and river are all interesting.

PokerStars Game #34849992376: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2 USD) - 2009/11/02 20:43:52 ET
Table 'Irus III' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($409.50 in chips)
Seat 2: tsifknits ($228.95 in chips)
Seat 3: simona75 ($202.25 in chips)
Seat 5: thecooler992 ($219.60 in chips)
simona75: posts small blind $1
thecooler992: posts big blind $2
a7ofspades: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [9h Qd]
heybude: raises $2.10 to $4.10
tsifknits: calls $4.10
simona75: folds
thecooler992: folds
*** FLOP *** [3c Td Jc]
heybude: bets $8.60
tsifknits: raises $13.40 to $22
heybude: calls $13.40
*** TURN *** [3c Td Jc] [Kc]
heybude: checks
tsifknits: bets $30
heybude: calls $30
*** RIVER *** [3c Td Jc Kc] [4c]
heybude: checks
Kangoosaure is connected
tsifknits: bets $34
Kangoosaure is connected
heybude: raises $146.75 to $180.75

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Marshall28

11-03-2009, 02:13 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,198

I usually get it ... but I just don't get it... What's out of the ordinary about this?

noble007

11-03-2009, 02:17 AM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006

Location: London

Posts: 531

My 2 cents, If he didn't mass multi-table it would be a great hand.

Flop looks good, shoving with a non-nut straight draw where some of your outs are tainted (clubs) is not a great option but calling because you have implied odds and the opportunity to bluff at some clubs depending on what he does on the turn seems good.

Turn - raising over-reps your hand too much so calling seems pretty good.

River is a bet sizing tell alot of weak players myself included have because people don't usually exploit it which is that if you have a weak flush say 9 high you bet a small amount to get called by worse than the 9 high flush but if you had the Ace you would bet stronger because Q/9 flush draw would still call you.
(+ sometimes it is a total bluff & + also sometimes to induce something spazzy.)

So this is a good spot to bluff CR, except if he is mass multi-tabling as he might not even fold a 8/9 high flush to you because you have wild stats & he thinks you would have shoved flop with nut flush draw.
However a better player would put AcQx AcTx AcKx etc. in your range and also think that this would be a bad spot for you to bluff and give you more credit and fold.

Currently thinking of a new quote/signature... Some sort of prayer to the Poker gods for enlightment etc..

meeloche

11-03-2009, 02:34 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,130

Tsfknits also has mass multitabled 5/10 and 3/6 for the majority of this year and I expect him to likely know who you are isf so he's probably going off more than just your stats.

Your line is certainly solid and you picked a type of villain who can hand read so I'd say nh. It certainly helps that you can have the Ac much more often than he can and I'd imagine that's the main reason you decided to bluff here.

Marshall28

11-03-2009, 12:20 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

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Posts: 1,198

oops misread board

griffey24

11-03-2009, 01:49 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Posts: 4,599

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeloche

It certainly helps that you can have the Ac much more often than he can and I'd imagine that's the main reason you decided to bluff here.

I don't agree with his. How do we have more Ac than him? He's raising this flop, so I'd say a lot of his range is already Axcc for doing that. Hero is calling OOP. Hero probably usually 3bets Axcc, so now the only Ac we have are AcK and AcQ type stuff and we might not even always call flop with those.

I still don't mind the bluff, just cause villains betting range is waay wider than just the Ac on the river and that's mostly the only thing he will call with, I just wouldn't say its more in our range than his.

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Da GOAT

11-03-2009, 03:55 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Location: Dublin

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id agree with griffey. i didnt understand how meeloche thinks Ac is more in our range.

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

IowaSkinsFan

11-03-2009, 04:06 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Posts: 7,147

I'm sorry if the title was vague, I meant by "perspective change" that I went from having value to turning my hand into a bluff.

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Parasurama

11-03-2009, 05:38 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I think villain can convince himself (or perhaps even plan) to call with some lower flushes because of his river betsizing.

meeloche

11-03-2009, 06:17 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

oops misread board

+1 Disregard my we can have Ac more than him...

mcatdog

11-03-2009, 06:43 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Location: St. Louis

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FWIW he minbet the river with TT on a KT22x board against me, and I got owned by raising my king and calling a 3-bet. I'd be careful about assuming weak river bet = thin value bet that will fold to a raise, against someone as solid as him who probably doesn't have blatant bet-sizing tells.

XTR1000

11-03-2009, 06:52 PM

#12 (permalink)

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XTR1000 is an unknown quantity at this point

this is so over my head. would somebody mind to give me a hint on why hero c/c´s turn?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

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yo

11-03-2009, 06:55 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by XTR1000

this is so over my head. would somebody mind to give me a hint on why hero c/c´s turn?

We have a straight, and there is a possible flush out there. We aren't folding our straight, and we aren't raising because not many worse hands will call.

Marshall28

11-03-2009, 10:30 PM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

I think almost everyone playing 200nl has pretty blatant sizing tells?

Marshall28

11-03-2009, 10:31 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I'm sorry if the title was vague, I meant by "perspective change" that I went from having value to turning my hand into a bluff.

LOL I thought the title meant that there was something about the hand that changed the way you looked at the game in general.

I think I get it now.

IowaSkinsFan

11-04-2009, 05:21 AM

#16 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

I think this is the best part about this hand. There are definitely times where a player will bet small to try to get you to raise. In this situation, however, I think thats less likely given I'd have to turn my made hands into bluffs which I doubt anyone would expect. So why would he bet small? Probably for thin value. Now if im in pos and a draw missed or something id imagine he could bet small to induce. Here it doesnt seem like thats the case.

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Marshall28

11-04-2009, 07:50 AM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I hadn't really thought about that. That's actually a really good point and makes this hand pretty cool IMO.

nutsinho

11-04-2009, 09:18 AM

#18 (permalink)

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well i think his most likely hands are the nuts, TcTx, and rare bluffs. I'm not sure sure mr tsifnits even bets the ten here in position, but if he did, he's definitely folding to a raise.

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

bjsaust

11-04-2009, 10:56 AM

#19 (permalink)

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Hmm, you dont think he has stuff like 7c8c, 8c9c?

Just playing to improve.

Da GOAT

11-04-2009, 11:26 AM

#20 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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he would prob check them flushes back on river Bj

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

nutsinho

11-04-2009, 12:09 PM

#21 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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no chance he'd bet w/ a club worse than t

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

IowaSkinsFan

11-04-2009, 12:41 PM

#22 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Posts: 7,147

Is leading the turn better? Anything better to do on the flop?

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Marshall28

11-04-2009, 02:51 PM

#23 (permalink)

Full House

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Is leading the turn better? Anything better to do on the flop?

I don't think there's anything better you could have done.

If you 3bet the flop the NFD and all 2pr+ just jams on you and you don't get to realize any of the equity you have in the pot. On a rainbow board I think a 3bet would be okay, not that it's the best play, just that it's better on rainbow than it is on 2 tone.

If you led turn you'd have to fold to a raise and it would be super obvious that no one good would ever c/c a fd and lead the made flush on the turn. I would suspect most players would see through this and bluff raise u quite a bit. If he's a very weak player I suppose I wouldn't mind lead/folding the turn, but I think c/c is still way superior---particularly if you are good enough to make the type of read u did on his river sizing and occasionally turn your hand into a bluff.

Somehow I feel like you already knew everything I just said though.

11-04-2009, 03:51 PM

#24 (permalink)

Straight

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Posts: 117

I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and put some credible nut hands in your range.

You wouldn't 3bet flop with Axcc oop?
Would you b/c Ac10x on the flop?
Would you c/c AcQx or AcKx on the turn?

I can't really comment on what is right or wrong here since you're obv more advanced than myself but I personally think it looks more full of shit than not and I'd be more proned to call if I was going for thin value on the river.

Isn't this hand reverse ISF thereom?

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