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Rockymv
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07-25-2006, 05:25 PM
Post subject: Donkish river call?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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Villian is 43/17.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
SB ($84.50)
Hero ($99)
UTG ($97.50)
MP ($198.81)
Button ($117.30)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 , 6 . SB posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.
Flop: ($3) 6, 6 , J (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.5, Button calls $2.50, SB calls $2.50.
Turn: ($10.50) Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, Button raises to $16, SB folds, Hero calls $8.
River: ($42.50) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $20, Hero calls $20.
Final Pot: $82.50
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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What are his turn and river aggression factor and frequency? What are his showdown stats?
We split with any 6, beat a flush and a jack, and lose to any queen. A player who raises 17% of their hands preflop probably has a very wide range to limp on the button, have you seen him do this before?
A call on the flop could mean a lot, if he has a FD he cant have a Q, but again the turn doesnt seem like a flush. He could very easily be slowplaying trips which you split with on the river. At first I thought a hand like QJ or AQ was possible, but realized he openlimped on the button so its most likely not a hand like that.
When thinking about this hand I really am not sure what Id put him on so those stats would help. He could be slowplaying trips and then raising that turn, or that Q could have helped him, its tough to say and I really would like to see what others have to say about this.
On a side note, does 3betting AI on the turn have any merit?
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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I like a 3-bet AI against a flush-draw board. Make him make a major mistake if he is on a draw.
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Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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bet $15 on river and fold to a raise
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Rockymv
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
What are his turn and river aggression factor and frequency? What are his showdown stats?
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I don't have enough hands on him for these stats to be meaningful. I didn't even think about 3bet all in on the turn...but it sounds pretty good in retrospect.
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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River call is standard FYI.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
River call is standard FYI.
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sklansky says its a fold.
I like 3 betting all in on the turn fwiw unless opp is super passive and we're outkicked.
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natdang
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 380
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Yeah I stick it to him on the turn, but as played, I'd have led on the river. I call the river anyway, but calling big river bets is a huge leak in my game anyways.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
River call is standard FYI.
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sklansky says its a fold. |
lol where do you get this stuff from?
3 betting allin on turn sucks too
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I think it's better to lead for $20 as a hand like AJ will check behind....and a Queen will raise so you can fold. I doubt you will face a raise here as a bluff unless villain is a moron (or genius).
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
3 betting allin on turn sucks too
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Could you explain why?
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Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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fish with flush draws dont min raise the turn on paired boards. the guy almost always has a better 6 or two pair here. a push is good with A6 usually but not with a kicker that probably won't even play.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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So you think 67 would be in this hand? A6 wouldn't raise on button in unraised pot? I wouldn't be worrying about another mid PP on the turn. I am trying to take the pot down or make him pay to draw to his two outer.
My hand reading skills need work, that's why I am wondering....
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Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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he hardly ever has a draw here. if hes drawing to a 2 outer hes hardly paying too much. pushing just gives all our money away to monsters, which is what his hand looks like.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
he hardly ever has a draw here. if hes drawing to a 2 outer hes hardly paying too much. pushing just gives all our money away to monsters, which is what his hand looks like.
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Villian is 43/17.
were outkicked then and should call the river?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
bet $15 on river and fold to a raise
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natdang
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 380
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I agree, a push on turn would be a ridiculous overbet, not my style. But, I'd probably make it 30 something and fire a block bet on the river
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