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Do I go on with my flush?

  
 
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Iwind
Old 02-17-2006, 06:24 PM     Post subject: Do I go on with my flush? #1 (permalink)  
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PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($160.70)
SB ($249.60)
Hero ($152.70)
UTG ($85.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 3.
UTG checks, Button calls $1, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($6) 5, 8, K (4 players)
SB bets $4, Hero raises to $9, UTG calls $9, Button folds, SB calls $5.

Turn: ($33) 5 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $5, SB raises to $25, Hero folds, UTG calls $20.

River: ($83) 8 (2 players)
SB bets $20, UTG calls $20.

Final Pot: $123

Results in white below:
UTG has 4h Kd (two pair, kings and eights).
SB has 6h 7c (two pair, eights and fives).
Outcome: UTG wins $123.


I just lost 2 pretty big pots cause of making bad calls, one loosing with king high flush vs ace high flush, so maybe that affects my judgement? That's why I'm positing here. Before this hand I had no reads on the players, but I assumed the guy with the big stack was decent since he had a big stack. So do I go on with this and risk my stack on it or fold like I did? And now I have reads on them...
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r8ed
Old 02-17-2006, 07:04 PM #2 (permalink)  
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r8ed
Never assume somebody with a big stack is good. I usually see one big stack at every other table that is completely horrible, yet lucky. Sometimes that person is me

It looks like an OK laydown when the turn pairs and great laydown when the river pairs. I usually try to get a showdown, but can't really blame you with 2 people in the hand calling and reraising.
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Iwind
Old 02-17-2006, 08:24 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Well, at least chances are higher that a good stack is decent than someone with just around the buyin is. But yeah, lots of bad players get lucky. And seeing what hands those guys were in the pot with just proves that point.

I thought it was a good laydown as well, but if there is anything that tilts me in poker, it is folding the best hand cause of silly players making wierd plays. I'm certain that guy on the straight draw thought his draw was good when calling on that flop.

Anyways, usually a bad fold costs be less than a real bad call, but still I hate it more, is it just me?
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DaHorror
Old 02-17-2006, 09:03 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think you bet around $25 on the turn...river you would have to check/call check/fold depending on pot odds - if anyone has the 5 or 8 - bah - helluva chase.

Pretty unlikely that SB is on the 5 because he bet out on the flop. It might be the eight...but his river bet kinda indicates that it isn't, and not even the 5...I would expect at least a half pot ($40 or so) value bet on the end if he hit a FH.

MP looks like he's just calling down with the King.
Hell it looks like either SB has a weaker flush than you (unlikely) or just has the A of hearts...

Ah well - scary board on the end either way.

Hmmm...just looked at the results...grrrr...sucks to be bluffed out of the BB special
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Demiparadigm
Old 02-17-2006, 09:13 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Why would you check the turn?
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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Iwind
Old 02-17-2006, 09:24 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Because I thought I was behind, that one of them, most likely SB turned the full, but that was obviously a bad read.
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Fnord
Old 02-17-2006, 09:26 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I'm much more concerned with the flop cold-call.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Iwind
Old 02-17-2006, 09:33 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Well yes, that as well, unfortunately I was new at the table and had no idea what type of players these guys were.
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Thee One
Old 02-17-2006, 11:21 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Why would you check the turn?
I think this move gives the SB the ballz to pull off the check raise. If you bet hard on the turn, the SB has to seriously consider the flush, set or FH when the board pairs. Then If he pushes then you get a tough decision. Also UTG takes your check and the SB's check for weakness and tries to take one down...I think. He doesn't raise if you bet big, probably just calls you down or maybe tosses the hand.

As it stands you don't know where you stand with two aggressive opps in the pot with you and a pretty scary board. You could have second best hand or you could be good, your check doesn't give you any insight into the other guys hand. They both decide to make a play at the pot and you have no idea if they have the goods or not.

It is a good laydown based on the way you played the hand, but I think you should have bet the turn and put the hard decision on them, not you.

Though I could be wrong.
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