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Deepish hand im not happy with.

  
 
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Miffed22001
Old 09-06-2007, 11:04 PM     Post subject: Deepish hand im not happy with. #1 (permalink)  
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 Opp is a reg, 30/18 over 500~hands (mined)

I play with him regularly but we hardly ever get involved with one another, and in any case i rarely buy in 200bbs deep, however the guy acting behind me was a super fish so i wanted to cover him for a big pot etc.

Preflop is not standard i know, but we lots behind and the other two entrants in the pot have shown a tendancy to spew all over everything. The original cold caller is 100/75 over 45 hands!

How do you play the turn?
(HH convertor not working so sry)

200nl AP 6max

Table: HEMLOCK DR (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 4 - WOLFDOG139 ($298.55 in chips)
Seat 5 - MIFFED22001 ($441.95 in chips)
Seat 6 - MESON83 ($745.72 in chips)
Seat 1 - MFERRARI ($59.40 in chips)
Seat 2 - EEIIIEEIIIOO ($169.45 in chips)
Seat 3 - THEBLUNT ($315.69 in chips)
MIFFED22001 - Posts small blind $1
MESON83 - Posts big blind $2
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MIFFED22001 [2s 2c]
MFERRARI - Raises $4 to $4
EEIIIEEIIIOO - Calls $4
THEBLUNT - Raises $15 to $15
WOLFDOG139 - Folds
MIFFED22001 - Calls $14
MESON83 - Folds
MFERRARI - Calls $11
EEIIIEEIIIOO - Calls $11
*** FLOP *** [2d 4c 6s]
MIFFED22001 - Checks
MFERRARI - Checks
EEIIIEEIIIOO - Checks
THEBLUNT - Bets $28
MIFFED22001 - Calls $28
MFERRARI - Folds
EEIIIEEIIIOO - Folds
*** TURN *** [2d 4c 6s] [8s]
MIFFED22001 - Checks
THEBLUNT - Bets $50
MIFFED22001 ????????????????????????????
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 09-06-2007, 11:09 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 With the original coldcaller being such a station, why not lead the flop for $45-50?
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bode
Old 09-06-2007, 11:09 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 um, raise? looks like an obv overpair. I would make it like $135 to go giving him some weak hope of having FE.
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zook
Old 09-06-2007, 11:28 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Pre-flop is fine, flop call is fine, now raise smallish like bode says and hope he sucks.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-06-2007, 11:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 he doesnt.

Our only ever pot of meaning was me in the sb opening standard with QQ him 3betting me pushing and him calling and showing KK.

If i raise he folds almost 100% i think unless he thinks id play KK like tyhis
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benny999
Old 09-07-2007, 12:04 AM #6 (permalink)  
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then i guess call again on the turn.

but on the flop, donking out is a lot better imo, mostly since it traps more in the pot.
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zook
Old 09-07-2007, 12:17 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
If i raise he folds almost 100% i think unless he thinks id play KK like this
Sounds like you've answered your own question. If he can fold AA here to a c/r then you needed to either lead the turn or c/c. I prefer c/c. River is interesting, but I think I like leading ~3/4 pot more often than not.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 09-07-2007, 12:30 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 I like leading the flop. I think you're pretty spot on in your analysis of the hand though. Normally I just say "WELL THEN BLUFF MORE IN THIS SPOT" but this spot never comes up.

As played call and lead river.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-07-2007, 12:37 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I like leading the flop. I think you're pretty spot on in your analysis of the hand though. Normally I just say "WELL THEN BLUFF MORE IN THIS SPOT" but this spot never comes up.

As played call and lead river.
you dont think he'll fire on the river with AA for value?

I like c/c c/c c/r for a line as it doesnt look so obviously like a set and lots of dosh is in on the river.
Also, it may look like i think he has AK and am trying to push him off it...

Sure, leading the flop leads to bet/call (i dont think he raises hes a little too passive to want to play an $800 pot with just AA but i could be mistaken) and then i can c/c turn and maybe open push river... (or just bet w/e)

What im trying to do is make a good hand look like one of those stupid plays you make with 99-QQ here...
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 09-07-2007, 03:12 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 please please please lead the flop.
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Deanglow
Old 09-07-2007, 03:43 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 I see this as a good flop for a check-raise. If we lead the flop, and he has missed overs, he is just folding. If we checkraise and he has missed overs, then he folds but we earn a larger pot. If we do this and he has overpair, I don't see him just getting away from it. He has an obvious overpair and his bets lead us to believe he wants to get us off our midpair. As played, I think you need to raise this to $150ish on the turn given you're so deep.
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acesfullokings
Old 09-07-2007, 04:24 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
please please please lead the flop.
EDIT: Yeah with this many players to the flop I think you have to lead out here.
I started a new job so don't play much ATM, just FTP mini grind
 
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benny999
Old 09-07-2007, 08:55 AM #13 (permalink)  
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donking the flop is mostly to trap money between you and the PFR, since the action goes you, donk1, donk2, PFR. i'd rather check-call if the action was you, PFR, donk1, donk2.
in other words when you lead, you get called by the donks chasing gut shots and other random draws, which they probably aren't gonna bet if you check.
that traps a bunch of money between you and the PFR (THEBLUNT), and if he has a big pair, it'll be tough to get away.
check-calling traps money as well, but the problem is it makes you stay more passive on the turn and river like this spot shows.
check-raising the flop may get him to fold AA if miffed has a tight image with how deep they are, and it probably gets the donks to fold too. also if theBLUNT has overs, he's not gonna try a c-bet into that field.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-08-2007, 12:12 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benny999
donking the flop is mostly to trap money between you and the PFR, since the action goes you, donk1, donk2, PFR. i'd rather check-call if the action was you, PFR, donk1, donk2.
in other words when you lead, you get called by the donks chasing gut shots and other random draws, which they probably aren't gonna bet if you check.
that traps a bunch of money between you and the PFR (THEBLUNT), and if he has a big pair, it'll be tough to get away.
check-calling traps money as well, but the problem is it makes you stay more passive on the turn and river like this spot shows.
check-raising the flop may get him to fold AA if miffed has a tight image with how deep they are, and it probably gets the donks to fold too. also if theBLUNT has overs, he's not gonna try a c-bet into that field.
hes probably too passive to raise flop behind everyone OR to call flop behind everyone and then bet turn.
Im looking for a 'lolisuckandoverplayedmypocket8s200bbsdeep' line if there is one...
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benny999
Old 09-08-2007, 06:37 AM #15 (permalink)  
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if he's passive like that, it's more reason to bet. i think you're putting too much importance on disguising your hand even if it means you miss value. that said, donking out still looks like 88 going for protection/info.
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