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Jager
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07-11-2007, 08:02 PM
Post subject: Deep weak top 2
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Villain is whodaman(?), I have him at 16/10/3.5. He has given me some trouble in the past, mostly due to his semi-light 3 beting along with his nittiness. Whats your play here, and you plan for the turn??
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
SB ($237.65)
BB ($237)
UTG ($372.85)
Hero ($593.30)
CO ($200)
Button ($342.35)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 9 , T.
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, Button calls $8, SB calls $7, 1 fold.
Flop: ($26) T , 9, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, Button raises to $45, SB folds, Hero ??
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,339
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Re-raise to 100, shove most turns.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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call and lead all turns.
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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I think this is most likely either a combo draw or someone defending against your cbets, maybe even a flush draw, or all of the above.
As played, like Fnord said, reraise to 115 or so, and shove most turns.
Oh yeah, pray for no queen/8/club 
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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I make it 150 since there are so many bad turns and I want to get the money in now. Raising to 100 is too small imo.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Man this hand is tough b/c you're deep. First, you've got to c-bet bigger, make it ~$22. After that... I'd like a feel for whether he'll stack off 170bb with a bare flush/str8 draw. If he will, I'm more than happy to re-raise big and call a push. If he's too nitty for that, I like a smaller re-raise to $100, fold to a push, as weak-tight as that sounds. You're over a 2:1 dog to 22/KcQc/8c7c, so if you raise to $150 you're getting the right price to call a push, but not if you raise to $100.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Wouldn't hero feel better about stacking off on this flop if at least one of his boat outs was counterfeiting a flush out?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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get money in the pot
you asked to get raise with that micro cbet you made
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
Wouldn't hero feel better about stacking off on this flop if at least one of his boat outs was counterfeiting a flush out?
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ya but that doesn't mean we don't stack off here
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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heh I think i totally misread this last time. For some reason i was thinking different cards were on the board  ooops. Anyway, i also didn't notice your micro cbet. I definitely make a good cbet on that flop and not a micro one. Thats probably another reason he raised you. Also, i repop it to a little over 100 and shove any non-club, a or 6 turn. I don't feel bad about stacking off over this, even 170bb deep.
@overflow: Yeah definitely, but i still stack off here
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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This isn't that deep, and by his raise size it's pretty obvious he has a draw or a weak hand (IMO). I'd just 3-bet pot like to 125.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I think there are two standard ways to play it call and c.r the turn or fourbet and fourbet is definetely the better option.
And there's no way we don't stack off here.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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I agree that villian's range here is essentially QcJc, 8c7c, 22, AcTx, Th9h, Ts9s, KcQc, KQo, AcQc, or total air. AcKc, JJ+ probably 3 bets from the button, so I'm seriously discounting overpair or AcKc.
Reraise/Call a Shove or call/open shove turn.
Which leads me to a dilemma that I've been struggling with constantly in my study of the game of Hold 'Em.
Which line looks "stronger" to the attentive opponent, 3betting the flop, or flat calling and open shoving any turn. Logic would tell me whichever play is more likely to get villian to put the money in with weaker hands getting worse odds should be the correct play, but I can never figure out which line "looks" stronger. Obviously the "weaker" looking line should be more profitable because you're inducing him to call light.
Edit:
I've decided that call/shove turn should be the optimal line here as it gives away the least information about the hand. You don't 3bet that flop without 2pair+, you could however be calling his raise and shoving the turn with a much wider range of hands.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think there are two standard ways to play it call and c.r the turn or fourbet and fourbet is definetely the better option.
And there's no way we don't stack off here.
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c/r turn is not an option, if this is a flush draw raising the flop for a free card you're letting him play the hand perfectly by checking in front on the turn. And you have no clubs that will boat you, meaning, he can't catch a card that makes his hand that counterfeits it at the same time. If he catches it's game over. Free card on the turn in this pot is bad mojojojo.
Edit:
Ditto for straight outs if he's on the straight, or straight flush draws.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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This looks like a no-brainer reraise. I would make it at least $120.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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$120 with the idea that he can call and not be pot commited on the turn? I think if we're 3betting the flop here $145 seems about right, as we're putting him to a decision for all his chips (essentially).
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