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Jager
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01-17-2007, 08:47 AM
Post subject: Deep with AA
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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Villain is a 26/14/1.6 luckbox, not very good.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($182.75)
Hero ($623.50)
BB ($164.35)
UTG ($293.10)
MP ($547.20)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , A .
1 fold, MP raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $22, 1 fold, MP calls $16.
Flop: ($46) 5, Q , J (2 players)
Hero bets $30, MP calls $30.
Turn: ($106) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $75, MP calls $75.
River: ($256) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $150, MP raises to $420.2, Hero ???
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Is he at least good enough to identify you have an overpair here? Looks to me like the river completed his open ended straight draw.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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This seems like an easy fold. You have one pair, and you're being raised big on the river after betting big on every street. Virtually no one is capable of raising this river with any hand that you beat.
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uscheese
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 558
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Is he at least good enough to identify you have an overpair here? Looks to me like the river completed his open ended straight draw.
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Would he have called $16 PF with a 9Ts though???
I'm thinking he caught a set or 2 pair
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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First of all this hand is deep thus villians range is huge or at least way larger than if we had only had 100BB effective.
Why are we betting this river..? We have shown tremendeous strength in this hand and besides KK I don't see any hand that we beat calling this bet.
Check and call a 150$ bet on river.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by uscheese
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Is he at least good enough to identify you have an overpair here? Looks to me like the river completed his open ended straight draw.
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Would he have called $16 PF with a 9Ts though???
I'm thinking he caught a set or 2 pair |
Not saying he should have called with it preflop. But he has been identified as a bad player. And they play suited connectors with bad odds all the time and this looks like a chasing line.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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unless he's completely terrible (i.e. stack off for 250 BB's w KQ on this board) I'd suggest checking either the flop, turn or river for pot control.
It's very possible to win a medium-sized pot taking an initially passive line here.
If the money gets in when you play your hand fast on this board, you're losing almost 100% of the time.
As played, the river is a very easy fold imo.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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btw imo folding SC's this deep to a reraise is a gigantic leak, especially when reraiser is prone to 3-barelling on 2nd worst possible board
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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The more I've thought about it, the more I think "pot control" is a heavily overrated concept. Typically, it's simply used as a justification for weak tight play that just ends up giving free cards and losing value over the long term, without much benefit.
I don't mind playing aces this fast against someone who has given me no reason to think I'm beat.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
The more I've thought about it, the more I think "pot control" is a heavily overrated concept. Typically, it's simply used as a justification for weak tight play that just ends up giving free cards and losing value over the long term, without much benefit.
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Why do you think it loses value long-term? Villains usually don't have big draws, and a flop or turn check makes them think their TPGK/middle pair/ace high is good and worth betting or calling with. Anecdotally I feel like lowering my flop and turn aggression has produced tons of value for my game.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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for me pot control is in the same category as position and "reads" in the list of "things you should be good at if you wanna make money at poker"
imo pot control is underrated
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
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also, pot control with a strong 1 pair hand becomes much more important when you're deep
if stacks are 100bb then stacking off here isn't bad at all
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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This fold is really easy, KQ/AQ is raising the flop if they want to raise the river which they didn't.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
The more I've thought about it, the more I think "pot control" is a heavily overrated concept. Typically, it's simply used as a justification for weak tight play that just ends up giving free cards and losing value over the long term, without much benefit.
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Agreed. It's very easy to become weak/tight (scared) under the guise of pot control. There are situations where it's justified but value betting a lot is just superior for so many reasons imo.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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potcontrol = the nuts
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
The more I've thought about it, the more I think "pot control" is a heavily overrated concept.
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then you dont really understand what pot control is
river is easy fold
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