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Damn the river...

  
 
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AceAssin
Old 06-04-2007, 03:58 AM     Post subject: Damn the river... #1 (permalink)  

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So I went all in pocket rockets...and the guy I'm heads up with calls with KJos. He catches the jack on the flop...and rivers a king. I play mostly on bodog and always get owned on the river. Like I'll flop a straight..and get beat by a higher straight or a higher flush...etc. I know you all hear this all the time, but when you call the river screwing you, it makes you wonder if online poker is rigged. I'll go into more detail later, just venting. Sorry.
..and yes i'm a newb on here....
i'm RJ
pleasure to meet you all...hopefully
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taipan168
Old 06-04-2007, 04:19 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Hi and welcome to FTR, it's good to have you here.

I know this sounds a bit strange, but anytime you get all your chips in as a favourite, BE HAPPY even if you lose! Also, online poker isn't rigged.

Post some hands where you have a decision to make and we'll take a look at them.
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bjsaust
Old 06-04-2007, 04:44 AM #3 (permalink)  
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It sucks. Just try to pay attention to the times the river is nice to us. We tend to focus more on when someone else sucks out than when we do ourselves.
Just playing to improve.
 
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taipan168
Old 06-04-2007, 05:16 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
It sucks. Just try to pay attention to the times the river is nice to us. We tend to focus more on when someone else sucks out than when we do ourselves.
This is very true, in fact this is the way our brains are wired - we tend to remember all those times our aces are cracked than the times we crack somebody else's aces.
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AceAssin
Old 06-04-2007, 10:31 AM #5 (permalink)  

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I think the worst beat I've ever had was having pocket 9's which are my favorite hand to play...and then the flop came K-K-9 in which i flopped a boat. Then the turn was a king, and the river was another king. So I bet like crazy, guy has A-2 os and won. I was more than mad lol. The thing I hate about hold em is that if you have pocket pairs..and there are 2 other pairs on the board higher than yours, Ace high will win. =/ I guess you can say I need to start paying attention more on that kinda stuffs. Oh well, I only started playing poker seriously in March this year. A thing I decided to get into after my girlfriend broke up with me. Hopefully this will help out..haha.


oh and thanks for the welcome guys...I have a feeling I'll be posting and reading up on here a lot more often
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taipan168
Old 06-04-2007, 11:28 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Couple of quick things:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceAssin
I think the worst beat I've ever had was having pocket 9's which are my favorite hand to play...
Stop right there! Your favourite hand to play should be AA, followed by KK, followed by QQ, you get the idea. Just because you've won some huge pot with 99 doesn't mean it somehow has magical properties!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceAssin
and then the flop came K-K-9 in which i flopped a boat. Then the turn was a king, and the river was another king. So I bet like crazy, guy has A-2 os and won. I was more than mad lol.
Whether it's the worst beat depends on when the money went in. If you slowplayed the flop and turn then you gotta be seriously worried when the fourth K comes on the river, since any card higher than T beats you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceAssin
oh and thanks for the welcome guys...I have a feeling I'll be posting and reading up on here a lot more often
Good! Post some hands and hopefully we can help you out.
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fdnypoker
Old 06-04-2007, 01:47 PM #7 (permalink)  
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AceAssin....welcome....and yes that's a tough beat.

We're built to remember the bad and just sweep aside the times WE catch the gut shot or two outter on the river.

2 nights ago I was AI with JJ against KK and I hit runner runner to take it with a flush. SAME GAME.....I'm AI again with 88 vs AK. Flop brings A-K-10....4th street is a J and river is a magical Q for a split pot. I sucked out twice in 5 hands and made the money.

It's hard for me to argue or get angry when I get my $ in with the best hand. I will take AA and go AI every hand for the rest of my life. Because we play so many more hands online it just seems that you get rivered more than average...however I assure you online poker is not rigged.

GL and post some hands.
It's not how many pots you win, it's what's in them that counts.
 
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AceAssin
Old 06-05-2007, 10:37 AM     Post subject: I retract my previous statement about damning the river lol #8 (permalink)  

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So I played another heads up sng against a guy I've played within the past week. Last time we went h2h he beat me in an embarassing 25 hands. But after playing him again, I did start to notice a few things about how he would bet and what not. But also, the river saved my arse numerous times tonight. Below is the hand history I copied from bodog. Sorry, but there's no hand converter on here for bodog. Well enjoy and let me know if it was a smart move calling with what I did.

Hand Number 746041704
Start Date 2007-06-05 06:07:51.0
End Date 2007-06-05 06:08:03.0
Pot Size $2,340.00
Rake $0.00
Game Type Hold'Em
Play Mode Real
Table Name AEK
Structure NL
Community Cards 10 6 A 9 7

Player Information
Screen
Name Seat
Position Cards
Dealt Start/End
Amount Total
Bet Win/Loss
Amount
ItsMeArjay 1 8 A $1,830.00/$3,000.00 $1,170.00 $1,170.00
miketherake 2 10 10 $1,170.00/$0.00 $1,170.00 $-1,170.00

Hand Actions
Player Action Action Data Timestamp
ItsMeArjay Set dealer/Bring in spot 1 06:07:51
ItsMeArjay Ante/Small blind $ 50.00 06:07:51
miketherake Big blind/Bring in $ 100.00 06:07:51
ItsMeArjay Card dealt to a spot 8 A 06:07:51
miketherake Card dealt to a spot 10 10 06:07:51
ItsMeArjay All-in $ 1,780.00 06:07:54
miketherake All-in $ 1,070.00 06:07:55
ItsMeArjay Return uncalled portion of bet $ 660.00 06:07:55
Betting round completed Last active pot = $0.00
Side pot 2 = $2,340.00 06:07:57
Card dealt to table 10 6 A 06:07:57
Betting round completed Last active pot = $0.00
Side pot 2 = $2,340.00 06:07:59
Card dealt to table 9 06:07:59
Betting round completed Last active pot = $0.00
Side pot 2 = $2,340.00 06:08:01
Card dealt to table 7 06:08:01
Betting round completed Last active pot = $0.00
Side pot 2 = $2,340.00 06:08:03
miketherake Showdown Show card: Three of a Kind
10 10 10 A 9 06:08:03
ItsMeArjay Showdown Show card: Straight
10 9 8 7 6 06:08:03
ItsMeArjay Hand result $ 2,340.00 06:08:03




Before this final hand, there were numerous chances he had to knock me out. But I made good folds to make a comeback. I was short stacked down to less than $100 in chips so I caught a few good hands and pushed all-in and in which he called just to try to knock me out. Finally I got back up to over $1000 and started playing smarter from there. He got me back down to $200 and I came back from there. And in which the river was the one that gave me the winning straight or set. And for the record, the h2h lasted 167 hands. Idk if thats good or bad. But that shows how patient I've gotten. I used to be playing anything and everything....that is til I lost a couple hundred bucks. But yet I still get called a donk a lot. I need to change that....lol Comments and advice always welcome.
-Arjay [AceAssin}
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uscheese
Old 06-05-2007, 01:46 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Wait...are these heads up sng's? or getting to the heads up portion of a 9 player sng?
 
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gingerwizard
Old 06-05-2007, 02:25 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
Stop right there! Your favourite hand to play should be AA, followed by KK, followed by QQ, you get the idea.
Not true in deepstack games for me.
This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
 
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dsmrolla06
Old 06-05-2007, 03:19 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerwizard
Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
Stop right there! Your favourite hand to play should be AA, followed by KK, followed by QQ, you get the idea.
Not true in deepstack games for me.
Why is this? Theres nothing better than getting it all in pf or when they hit their tptk and you have your aces 200bb deep.


And yes you will see many many many more worse beats than you have witnessed, especially when you start multitabling. Just learn to handle it at the low stakes so you will better adjust when you move up.
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TLR
Old 06-05-2007, 03:25 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 Hi Ace, welcome to FTR

I did not see any hand you posted, but one of the reasons you may be losing hands on the river is either slowplaying too much or playing softly and letting other people outdraw you.
For example if you have T9d and on the turn the board is 2d5d8d2c and you check the turn or minbet it, dont be surpised if you get called and someone outdraws you by getting a better flush or a boat on the river

I dont know if this is your case, just a thought


 
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AceAssin
Old 06-05-2007, 06:19 PM #13 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by uscheese
Wait...are these heads up sng's? or getting to the heads up portion of a 9 player sng?
yeah. its a heads up sng
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AceAssin
Old 06-05-2007, 06:21 PM #14 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLR
Hi Ace, welcome to FTR

I did not see any hand you posted, but one of the reasons you may be losing hands on the river is either slowplaying too much or playing softly and letting other people outdraw you.
For example if you have T9d and on the turn the board is 2d5d8d2c and you check the turn or minbet it, dont be surpised if you get called and someone outdraws you by getting a better flush or a boat on the river

I dont know if this is your case, just a thought
and yeah you're right. i kind of tend to bet min or check. I need to start being more aggressive I guess. Thanks for the help
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Sprayed
Old 06-05-2007, 06:55 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 Slowplay less and bet more. And not weak bets mind you like min raises or min check raises. Almost play as if slowplaying doesn't exist.
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fdnypoker
Old 06-05-2007, 07:31 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Almost play as if slowplaying doesn't exist.
This alone is worth the price of admission. Great quote.
It's not how many pots you win, it's what's in them that counts.
 
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bjsaust
Old 06-05-2007, 10:48 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Yeah that was one of my big problems when I started out. I had the best hand on the flop, so would slowplay to the river "to get more money in". Now I build the pot with strong betting to (hopefully) knock out any draws and win max money from 2nd best hands. If a strong bet folds the table, then so be it, I still won chips and avoided bad beats.
Just playing to improve.
 
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bjsaust
Old 06-07-2007, 12:42 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Pocket pairs counterfeited twice on the river so far today to knock me out. Must take own advice...
Just playing to improve.
 
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Grndr101
Old 06-08-2007, 08:07 PM #19 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
Couple of quick things:
Stop right there! Your favourite hand to play should be AA, followed by KK, followed by QQ, you get the idea. Just because you've won some huge pot with 99 doesn't mean it somehow has magical properties!"
Hum i totally disagree with that, i made more money on 53s than on queens, kings or even aces. Actually i even probably lost more money than i won with queens. In a full cash game ill take a suited connector in late position over AK in early position anytime. Off course you should never fold Aces or even Kings (well maybe kings sometimes) preflop and play them smart on the flop turn and river, you dont want to go all in against some crazy two pair or set, after all its only one pair you got. In a tournament with huge blinds its best to have those aces though.
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taipan168
Old 06-09-2007, 12:20 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grndr101
Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan168
Couple of quick things:
Stop right there! Your favourite hand to play should be AA, followed by KK, followed by QQ, you get the idea. Just because you've won some huge pot with 99 doesn't mean it somehow has magical properties!"
Hum i totally disagree with that, i made more money on 53s than on queens, kings or even aces. Actually i even probably lost more money than i won with queens.
Over how many hands is your sample size? It's kind of hard to judge in tourneys because the blinds increase. Plus, how you play postflop has a big bearing on this but if you're all in preflop, the odds are the odds! How about this, if you really like 53s rather than AA, how about we play heads up dealing you 53s every time and me AA and I'll go AI preflop every time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grndr101
In a full cash game ill take a suited connector in late position over AK in early position anytime.
This is different, cash games are way deeper stacked because you can reload. SNGs are very shallow stacked games, even in the early levels and so you need to play accordingly. Do you still say you'd rather have T9s in late position rather than AA UTG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grndr101
Off course you should never fold Aces or even Kings (well maybe kings sometimes) preflop and play them smart on the flop turn and river, you dont want to go all in against some crazy two pair or set, after all its only one pair you got. In a tournament with huge blinds its best to have those aces though.
Agreed!

My only point to OP was that you should avoid the concept of a "favourite" hand, when I played lower buyins I saw people do crazy shit with hands like Q9s, justifying it by saying, "it's my favourite hand!".
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