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bjsaust
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05-28-2009, 11:59 AM
Post subject: Crappy river v's table fish (100nl)
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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UTG is 63/7 with 40% fold to cbet. He min-3bet me earlier and psb flop and then another time minraised my cbet on a low board. My assumption in both spots was that he was very strong because they're the only times I've seen him do that. His aggression % is fairly high, more from donking OOP than from raising though, and the two times the PFR hasnt c-bet against him he's bet. I've seen him minbet/call, minbet, minbet with bottom pair on an A high board before. I was a bit tired, should have bet turn a bit bigger to make for a nice river, but the 5 sucks putting 4straight on the board. I just have no idea if he's capable of betting the river without an 8. I feel like if I shove I'm value towning myself, bet/call sucks, bet/fold seems terrible. I ended up deciding he's unlikely to bet without the straight, but cant say I really had that as a read. Thoughts?
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($210.75)
Button ($103.60)
Hero (SB) ($126)
BB ($112.10)
UTG ($67.10)
MP ($110.15)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J , J
UTG calls $1, 3 folds, Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $3
Flop: ($9) 9 , 7, 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6
Turn: ($21) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $12, UTG calls $12
River: ($45) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $26.50, Hero folds
Total pot: $45
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Just playing to improve.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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$5 pre, bet turn harder, as played c/f river is fine.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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Lucothefish
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cretaceous Park
Posts: 700
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c/c river?
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<@d0zer> how will you learn if I don't berate you harshly?
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if he's capable betting the river without the straight, he has SO many two pairs that it would be better if he wasn't capable of betting the river without the straight because then it would be just bluffs and straights
unless he's totally fucktarded and bets a nine
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Probably don't bet the flop unless you are looking to stack off against him here. Given your read, he is pretty aggressive and has raised your c-bets a couple times. This isn't a board you want to be putting a ton of money in the pot on. I'd probably c/c the flop then put more money into the pot if the turn looks safe, or just c/c down if I think he will bluff.
If you still want to bet flop, your turn bet is like WAY WAY WAY too small. He's folding basically zero hands that he called with on the flop. Anything that's a pair or a straight draw he's calling without a doubt, so bomb it, bet like 19-->21 or whatever.
On the river, he probably doesn't turn a 9 or a 7 into a bluff, only hands you will beat are missed hearts, and there aren't even that many combos of that, he will have a straight super often. Easy c/f.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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stacking off on the flop would be very bad against all but the most maniacal of fish. We bet because there are a million hands he will just call with. On the turn, we are good about 90% of the time, the board is very drawy, our opponent is poor, and we are out of position. You decide to bet 12 into 21. Please think about this and tell me how bad you think it sucks on a scale of 1 to 10.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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$5 pre, $9 into $11 on the flop, $24 into $29 on the turn, c/f river.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
$5 pre, $9 into $11 on the flop, $24 into $29 on the turn, c/f river.
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Everything looks good until the river. Given villain's $67 stack, do you still c/f river. I guess we sure don't beat much that bets but I hate to abandon this big pot that we built. Tough spot indeed.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Yeah, I know turn betsize was bad. I was in the process of closing things down and not thinking too straight. I dont want him to fold here, but like Nuts says, he's bad, he'll call a lot more than this. I think I can bet $18 and still get called by all his 9X and all draws.
I may have given the wrong impression Marshal, in over 100 hands I've only seen him raise twice ever, one preflop and one postflop. Most of his aggression is donking. Flop seems like an easy bet since he loves to call.
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Just playing to improve.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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I still don't see how u decided to bet 12. U cud just bet like 8 on river as a blocker too but c/f is fine too.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Bigger raise pre-flop. Do this with a lot of hands and you will get crazy action.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Bigger raise pre-flop. Do this with a lot of hands and you will get crazy action.
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this can lead to crazy spew as often as it does to crazy action if you do it with too wide of a range.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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not vs a fish tho bode since our wide range is still stronger than fishes calling range.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
not vs a fish tho bode since our wide range is still stronger than fishes calling range.
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to an extent. i've just been spewing alot from the blinds the last couple months, but i think its been more opening vs good BB's from the SB than raising vs fish's limps.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
not vs a fish tho bode since our wide range is still stronger than fishes calling range.
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This, also adjusting your range as you build a health relationship full of mistrust and random acts of aggression.
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Marshall28
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,198
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Bigger raise pre-flop. Do this with a lot of hands and you will get crazy action.
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Am I the only one that thinks the fish actually adapt to this? Cuz I think it's bad against the fish in the games I play. I've watched friends play on Prima/Party and it's clearly good there, but on Stars I seem to doubt it.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marshall28
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Bigger raise pre-flop. Do this with a lot of hands and you will get crazy action.
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Am I the only one that thinks the fish actually adapt to this? Cuz I think it's bad against the fish in the games I play. I've watched friends play on Prima/Party and it's clearly good there, but on Stars I seem to doubt it. |
they don't adapt, but they do fold more vs. a bigger bet as a default
however, 4.5 is competely justified in this spot
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Agree on all betsizing statements, and can only put my mistakes down to lazyness. PF was mashing the 'bet pot' button and turn was a total lack of thinking. In my defense I was in the process of closing my tables down for the reason that my head wasnt in it.
As to raising from the blinds, its something I'm rethinking atm. Late last year I realised I was losing at a fair rate in hands where I raised limpers from the blinds so cut it right back to a fairly tight range. Probably something like TT+, AJ+, KQ. I've been thinking lately that I over-corrected though. I was probably isolating as much from the blinds as I was IP which is obviously bad. I'll probably stick with much the same value range, but start adding a bluffier portion to my range as well. SCs etc.
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Just playing to improve.
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Kiriath
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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as played fold c/f river.
looking at the villians stack, id say bet 5 preflop, pot flop, with the intention of pushing turn if it looks safe. I see alot of idiots call the turn push with a pair and a a draw.
Im trying to make a habit of just pushing the turn if I have a made hand, and think villian is on a draw if its not a totally rediculous overbet.
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