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a couple thin value bets

  
 
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gabe
Old 03-20-2006, 06:15 PM     Post subject: a couple thin value bets #1 (permalink)  
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which ones are good and which ones are hopeless
hand 1:
villian seemed average
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($259.50)
SB ($192)
BB ($400)
Hero ($521.90)
MP ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9, 7. SB posts a blind of $2.
Hero raises to $15, 2 folds, SB (poster) calls $13, 1 fold.

Flop: ($34) 4, 4, 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($34) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $25, SB calls $25.

River: ($84) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $80

hand 2:
i thought villian was getting annoyed with all my preflop raising, but i think he was a little better than average. i thought calling the flop was the best way to get the most value out of the hand and lose the least to a set.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($445.60)
MP ($434.40)
Hero ($421.30)
SB ($746.80)
BB ($610.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J. SB posts a blind of $2.
2 folds, Hero raises to $15, 1 fold, BB calls $11.

Flop: ($32) 3, T, 5 (2 players)
BB bets $25, Hero calls $25.

Turn: ($82) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $48, Hero calls $48.

River: ($178) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $140
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aislephive
Old 03-20-2006, 07:30 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 I think you need to bet that flop, it almost certainly missed him so you will usually take the pot down uncontested. As played I would make a small river bet and hope a worse hand calls.

Hand 2 I would raise the flop to see where I stand, there's no reason to think you don't have the best hand right here. As played I make a smallish river bet of 75 or so and any ten will certainly call you.
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Iwind
Old 03-20-2006, 08:36 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Hand 1:
I'd bet less than $80 on the river, I don't think any worse hand calls that here, but depends on your image etc.

Hand 2 I like
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Robert
Old 03-20-2006, 10:20 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: with an average villain I dont see what hands you expect opp to call a potsized river bet with. I dont like it.

Hand 2: I like it. Raising the flop "to see where I stand" or "for information" is an overused concept that often is -EV.
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gabe
Old 03-21-2006, 12:07 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Hand 1: with an average villain I dont see what hands you expect opp to call a potsized river bet with. I dont like it.
i was hoping it would look like AK trying to buy the pot and get a call from some small pocket pair
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Robert
Old 03-21-2006, 05:11 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Hand 1: with an average villain I dont see what hands you expect opp to call a potsized river bet with. I dont like it.
i was hoping it would look like AK trying to buy the pot and get a call from some small pocket pair
If this is the case villains perception of you is important - whats your image?
Anyhow I still dont like it - do I think you will get a better hand to fold or get a worse hand to call (small pocketpair like you said or even ace high)? Yeah sometimes you will, but not often enough to make this a profitable riverbet.
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gabe
Old 03-21-2006, 05:14 AM #7 (permalink)  
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so what do you put him on after he calls turn?
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lolzzz_321
Old 03-21-2006, 05:16 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I like them all.
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Bmxicle
Old 03-21-2006, 05:52 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Bet 50 to 60 on the river in the first hand. Otherwise they look good. I'm guessing you go check raised by a slowplaying asshole on hand 1.
 
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aislephive
Old 03-21-2006, 06:35 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Hand 1: with an average villain I dont see what hands you expect opp to call a potsized river bet with. I dont like it.

Hand 2: I like it. Raising the flop "to see where I stand" or "for information" is an overused concept that often is -EV.
I agree that raising for the sole purpose of "getting info" is usually not a good play, but you are raising this hand not only for "getting info" but because you probably have the best hand as well.
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Robert
Old 03-21-2006, 01:41 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I'm not sure what hand to put opp on, maybe a stronger 9 or a med/low pp since he called your turn bet. I can see why you call the riverbet a valuebet, but I cant imagine a potsized riverbet being called very often by a med/low PP that you beat, maybe a ½-2/3 potsized bet would be better.
Take my advice FWIW though, cuz I'm only playing 50NL 6-max, and the game plays very differently from 2/4 I can imagine (and most opps - aside from the weak tights - are extremely difficult to put on a hand).
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gabe
Old 03-21-2006, 03:08 PM #12 (permalink)  
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MAYBE its because i raise too much, but i can't get people to fold smallish pairs by betting this river with AK.

first hand i was called by 55, second hand i was called by T9s
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bdawg56kg
Old 03-21-2006, 04:47 PM #13 (permalink)  
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First hand is reaaallllyyy thin, but with the right read I like it. For the second hand though, if you had been raising a lot and playing lag, why wouldn't you want to play for stacks on this flop?
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zenbitz
Old 03-21-2006, 06:29 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
so what do you put him on after he calls turn?
High cards, or maybe a 9 or 2 spades.. maybe even a 2. What I like about your river bet is that it might fold a 9 that out kicks you, even A9.

EDIT: Oh yeah, or 33/55-88.
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gabe
Old 03-21-2006, 06:34 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
First hand is reaaallllyyy thin, but with the right read I like it. For the second hand though, if you had been raising a lot and playing lag, why wouldn't you want to play for stacks on this flop?
i think villian would be more inclined to think i was bluffing on later streets. of course there are lots of cards that kill my action, but it worked out this one.

one the first hand, what hand could i have that bets the pot on the river? i think that bet looks like a bluff because i'm not really representing a big hand. i think my opponents know i dont check any big hands on that flop, so it hopefully does look like AK or maybe missed spades.
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nutsinho
Old 03-23-2006, 05:04 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 i really like the first hand and I dont think that it is thin at all
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