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sunfunbunch
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03-23-2006, 07:02 PM
Post subject: Couple Questions That Concern Me
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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I think I've written these questions in other threads but I think it deserves its own.
I've been playing at a site where it's basically NOT worth raising unmade hands. As we all know, we will hit the flop less than the times that we DO hit it.
Whenever I cont-bet, it just gets picked off. They MAKE you fire a second barrel to make sure that you take the pot. I'm not sure If want to be firing TWO times at the pot to make sure that I take it down with an unmade hand.
How does one go about playing a game like this?
What should my raises be?
Another one. Is it worth blind stealing in games like this?
If so, how much should the PFR be as well. **Remember that they will usually call the c-bet and will try to keep you 'honest'.
Arrggghhh
Thanks, fellas [and gals?] lol... 
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Stakes?
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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When you lose fold equity, your implied odds increase. Not as a rule, but it's usually the case.
Only put money in the middle when you feel you have the best chance to actually show down a winner. Loose games are a series of honest showdowns.
STOP BLUFFING INTO CALLING STATIONS
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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sunfunbunch
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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Stakes = 50NL at Euro sites =)
**This is one of those sites that CONSTANTLY gives me problems.
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sunfunbunch
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
When you lose fold equity, your implied odds increase. Not as a rule, but it's usually the case.
Only put money in the middle when you feel you have the best chance to actually show down a winner. Loose games are a series of honest showdowns.
STOP BLUFFING INTO CALLING STATIONS
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Rondavu, does that mean that I should just LIMP these hands that I'd normally raise with?
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Just stop bluffing with limited fold equity. Sweet, I just made you money.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sunfunbunch
Rondavu, does that mean that I should just LIMP these hands that I'd normally raise with?
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Depends on what you're raising. Generally, I tighten up my raising requirements a bit, and I limp with a wider range looking to hit flops hard. In other words I limp stuff like J8 suited at this table, because I usually have both pot odds and implied odds to make my hand.
A typical hand for me at a table like this, is raise AK suited in position, get 4 callers, and the flop comes 7TQ rainbow. I check behind on the flop, the turn brings another T, and I fold to a pot sized bet. Someone with 6Q hangs around and destacks themself to T3 offsuit.
Preflop at this table is less about isolation, and more about pot building with the best hand if you feel you have that.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I assume you are playing B2B's. You have to mix up your postflop with these guys (and every site). If you just cbet every flop, they have every incentive to keep you honest. Once you mix it up and confuse them, they have trouble adjusting. I wouldn't limp your good hands on there. You'll run into all sorts of funky hands if you do.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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if the usually fold to 2 barrels, then fire 2
if they usually dont fold, then dont bluff
whats the problem
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alias2211
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: U, S and A!!!
Posts: 469
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
if the usually fold to 2 barrels, then fire 2
if they usually dont fold, then dont bluff
whats the problem
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you just have to figure out who does what and then take it from there. players notes are great for this, it's like a birthday present from yourself.
label the tighties that fold to the flop Cbet and then bet them all day long. when they do get sick of your Cbets, they may play back at you when you actually have a hand. position doesn't usually matter as much on these players.
label the calling stations and only bring the goods to them, TPGK+. bet your great hands hard against them too, like sets on up, don't slow play a calling station, that isn't how they work. make them pay to hit a hand that is inferior to yours and stack them, gg. i actually like being OOP on calling stations, because they're more willing to call that river bet lead out from me OOP than they are to check it to me and have me try to sneak in a value bet.
label the opps that are willing to call that 1st cbet but then fold to the 2nd barrel and make some plays for pots w/ any two cards every once in awhile. you have to be willing to do this, so if your current stakes don't let you feel comfortable doing so, move down a level and try it out there so you can get the hang of it. also, against this last group, you can sometimes bring the size of your cbet down a little bit if it helps your nerves. not much, you know, from 11 to like 8-9-ish on the Marshall dial. just make sure not to give them too good of odds on discounted raises to call and catch a hand ahead of yours.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by alias2211
you just have to figure out who does what and then take it from there. players notes are great for this
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bingo
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sunfunbunch
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by alias2211
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
if the usually fold to 2 barrels, then fire 2
if they usually dont fold, then dont bluff
whats the problem
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you just have to figure out who does what and then take it from there. players notes are great for this, it's like a birthday present from yourself.
label the tighties that fold to the flop Cbet and then bet them all day long. when they do get sick of your Cbets, they may play back at you when you actually have a hand. position doesn't usually matter as much on these players.
label the calling stations and only bring the goods to them, TPGK+. bet your great hands hard against them too, like sets on up, don't slow play a calling station, that isn't how they work. make them pay to hit a hand that is inferior to yours and stack them, gg. i actually like being OOP on calling stations, because they're more willing to call that river bet lead out from me OOP than they are to check it to me and have me try to sneak in a value bet.
label the opps that are willing to call that 1st cbet but then fold to the 2nd barrel and make some plays for pots w/ any two cards every once in awhile. you have to be willing to do this, so if your current stakes don't let you feel comfortable doing so, move down a level and try it out there so you can get the hang of it. also, against this last group, you can sometimes bring the size of your cbet down a little bit if it helps your nerves. not much, you know, from 11 to like 8-9-ish on the Marshall dial. just make sure not to give them too good of odds on discounted raises to call and catch a hand ahead of yours. |
Very WELL written.
Thanks for the info!! 
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