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Kagey
Old 03-05-2007, 03:09 PM     Post subject: counterfeits #1 (permalink)  
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This is my first post so go easy. Villain 58/22 seems pretty passive post flop, but only 50 hands to go on. Although I get the imppression he's protecting his blinds with anything. At the moment Absolute seems full of flush chasers hence the weak turn bet. River had me confused.

Stage #594001560: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2007-03-05 04:05:36 (ET)
Table: SARATOGA AVE (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - KAGEY22 ($48 in chips)
Seat 6 - PIGGYCOP ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 1 - RETLAWGUS ($54.30 in chips)
Seat 2 - RIVER_RAFTER ($131.85 in chips)
Seat 3 - MEGALINA18 ($107.25 in chips)
Seat 4 - MONTANAMAXXX ($50 in chips)
PIGGYCOP - Posts small blind $0.25
RETLAWGUS - Posts big blind $0.50
MONTANAMAXXX - Posts $0.50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to KAGEY22 [6h 6c]
RIVER_RAFTER - Folds
MEGALINA18 - Folds
MONTANAMAXXX - Checks
KAGEY22 - Raises $2 to $2
PIGGYCOP - Calls $1.75
RETLAWGUS - Folds
MONTANAMAXXX - Folds
*** FLOP *** [6d Qs Kd]
PIGGYCOP - Checks
KAGEY22 - Bets $3
PIGGYCOP - Calls $3
*** TURN *** [6d Qs Kd] [Qd]
PIGGYCOP - Checks
KAGEY22 - Bets $6
PIGGYCOP - Calls $6
*** RIVER *** [6d Qs Kd Qd] [Qc]
PIGGYCOP - Checks
KAGEY22 - Bets $16.50
PIGGYCOP - Calls $16.50

Comments on all streets appreciated. I feel a little to results orientated at the moment.
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swiggidy
Old 03-05-2007, 03:15 PM     Post subject: Re: counterfeits #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagey
This is my first post so go easy.
like that ever works

welcome

pre-flop good
flop fine, against passive players $4 may be better (you have to bet for them)
turn, against a normal player this is fine, against a passive bet $7.50
river, this sucks. Super easy check behind. first people don't fold boats, second you are now loosing to 77+ in addition to any Kx
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bigspenda73
Old 03-05-2007, 04:32 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Im betting much more on the first 2 streets and checking behind this river.
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griffey24
Old 03-05-2007, 05:25 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I would probably bet a bit stronger on the turn.

River, definitely check through.
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jyms
Old 03-05-2007, 05:27 PM     Post subject: Re: counterfeits #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagey
*** RIVER *** [6d Qs Kd Qd] [Qc]
PIGGYCOP - Checks
KAGEY22 - Bets $16.50
PIGGYCOP - Calls $16.50

Comments on all streets appreciated. I feel a little to results orientated at the moment.
What hands would ever call this that you beat?? Check through, your done with this hand.
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I Like Pie
Old 03-05-2007, 06:53 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Im betting much more on the first 2 streets and checking behind this river.
Really? He's betting 2/3 of the pot each time, decent size bet and the fact is, he's very strong, he wants a call, better yet a raise. I wouldn't wanna push the guy off the hand.

I play the hand the same the whole way through, but I just check the river.
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Renton
Old 03-05-2007, 07:22 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Im betting much more on the first 2 streets and checking behind this river.
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ilikeaces86
Old 03-05-2007, 07:55 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Im betting much more on the first 2 streets and checking behind this river.
 
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ilikeaces86
Old 03-05-2007, 07:56 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Im betting much more on the first 2 streets and checking behind this river.
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 03-05-2007, 08:35 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
Originally Posted by every poster but your mom
Im betting much more on the first 2 streets and checking behind this river.
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bigspenda73
Old 03-05-2007, 10:26 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 This hand has been in my mind all day. I keep wandering what villain could possibly have besides 6x/77-JJ. Can it be possible he is a huge nit with Kx here? Could a horrible player ever have a flush? If the river bet is designed to get a fold from 77-JJ I like it thinking it is possible. I know at best we are chopping if we get called but how many times does villian have 77-JJ and fold? I guess Im a little skewed by the fact that villain called the river bet and did not raise.
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sauce123
Old 03-05-2007, 10:47 PM #12 (permalink)  
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If villain is passive bet significantly more on turn- probably an overbet.

As played c/f river.
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bigspenda73
Old 03-05-2007, 10:51 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 Sauce, we're in position

gotcha from the other thread.
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swiggidy
Old 03-06-2007, 02:02 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 It's unlikely a middle pp by a passive villain. Even the dumb ones know they're behind basically everything on the turn. Could be a flush, likely is Kx, could even be AK. Why would a decent player with a K raise the turn? that would be terrible.
(\__/)
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Kagey
Old 03-06-2007, 05:33 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the advice.

So a check on the river seems like a good idea, this was my first thought, then I thought maybe bet a little for value against a flush, then thought what if he pushes over the top.

So not being able to decide between the two I snapped bet 16.50 and regretted it as soon as I clicked. So I wasn't even trying to fold out mid pairs.

To change the subject slightly several people mention larger flop bets. I always keep my c-bets at 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot. Is it worth mixing this up a bit?
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Galapogos
Old 03-06-2007, 05:42 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagey
To change the subject slightly several people mention larger flop bets. I always keep my c-bets at 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot. Is it worth mixing this up a bit?
Don't do this at random. But if you're sure you have the best hand up against a flush draw (you say there's a lot of flush chasers out and about on there now) raise to the maximum you think they would call to hit their flush.

If I'm up against a guy I know will pay nearly any price for the flush I'll even double pot it if I know he'll call it. Not a lot of guys that would pay that but you get what I mean.


Quote:
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I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 03-06-2007, 06:39 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagey
To change the subject slightly several people mention larger flop bets. I always keep my c-bets at 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot. Is it worth mixing this up a bit?
It's all about building a large pot with a lock hand(set/fh). Players at this level do not understand they are being priced out therefore you can bet about as much as you want in most cases. It's all exponential really, you make too small a flop bet, your turn bet will be smaller, therefore your river bet will be smaller as well. I vary my cbets a lot depending on flop texture, etc... Here, you can make as large a cbet as you want because the board is drawy and contains two high cards. If the board was more like J62r then you may want to make a smaller cbet for value. Just my take. Since your flop cbet was not full pot it did not allow you to create a large pot with a big hand.

When you see this flop you need to stop and say OK, how can I get all the money in this pot as quickly as possible?
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