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Cool raise size spot

  
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 12-06-2007, 03:36 AM     Post subject: Cool raise size spot #1 (permalink)  
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 Doughdebase is a very good aggressive regular. Reads hands very well and plays very well too. He knows im aggro and prob respects my game.
I think raise size is very important here. I think there's merit to an overshove, small one like i did, or really anything. What do you do?

POKERSTARS GAME #13651014567: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($2/$4) - 2007/12/04 - 17:01:40 (ET)
Table 'Shedir III' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Hintergrund ($605.30 in chips)
Seat 2: Nutedawg ($394 in chips)
Seat 3: Doughdebase ($416 in chips)
Seat 4: Weak Tite ($394 in chips)
Seat 5: heybude ($363 in chips)
Seat 6: AbacabDonkey ($472 in chips)
AbacabDonkey: posts small blind $2
Hintergrund: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [9c 6c]
Nutedawg: folds
Doughdebase: raises $10 to $14
Weak Tite: folds
heybude: calls $14
AbacabDonkey: calls $12
Hintergrund: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [2s 6d 9h]
AbacabDonkey: checks
Hintergrund: checks
Doughdebase: bets $36
heybude: raises $48 to $84
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silu73
Old 12-06-2007, 03:43 AM #2 (permalink)  
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If he considers you as an aggro player why would you raise so small? If you raise to a min of $100 this gives him the opportunity to shove over it and you of course snap call or you can get it all-in on the turn if he calls.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 12-06-2007, 04:14 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silu73
If he considers you as an aggro player why would you raise so small? If you raise to a min of $100 this gives him the opportunity to shove over it and you of course snap call or you can get it all-in on the turn if he calls.
If I were to bluff in this spot, what would i do? That's pretty much what i have to figure out.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 12-06-2007, 04:49 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Well we could call too but that would mean we could never bluff here and i dont like that versus a villain capable of folding a really strong hand.
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Renton
Old 12-06-2007, 05:03 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 i understand you are trying to widen your range in this spot but:

1. I don't know why you'd want to ever bluff raise in this spot to begin with.

2. I think its a pretty big overplay to raise this. In the big multiway pot, its probably only profitable to raise middle and top set, and since you want to be keeping your range wide, i'd just call with all the hands i liked here.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 12-06-2007, 05:19 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 yeah the more i look at this hand the more i like calling. Its a really tough spot for opp if i call though. I mean yeah he's not scared, but its not like im putting anymore money in with a worse hand.
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Renton
Old 12-06-2007, 05:24 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 not really

its not beyond you at all to have TT/JJ 9x 88 77 87 or a one of a few float candidates.
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 12-06-2007, 05:26 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 Renton, what you just said is completely contradictory. If your opponent thinks that someone's only going to be raising sets in this spot then you'd want to bluff raise (in fact good 6-max regulars are bluff raising this spot sometimes).

and to answer the original post, i like raising a little harder because i doubt he thinks that you think he's going to fold to this small raise.
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Renton
Old 12-06-2007, 05:30 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 no.

what im saying is that we can't raise a wide range of hands on this flop profitably due to the fact that his bet is pretty strong to begin with and that theres 2 players left to act who's range absolutely smashes this flop, so therefore we should only call and never raise regardless of our cards.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 12-06-2007, 05:42 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
no.

what im saying is that we can't raise a wide range of hands on this flop profitably due to the fact that his bet is pretty strong to begin with and that theres 2 players left to act who's range absolutely smashes this flop, so therefore we should only call and never raise regardless of our cards.
First off, versus a good player not wanting to raise a lot in this spot is exactly the reason why we'd want to do it.

Second, yeah 2 players hit sets like 2% of the time, but the other 98% they are folding.
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Halv
Old 12-06-2007, 05:52 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 Raising lets him call with stuff like A2s to snap off a bluff if he picks up a FD on the turn.

No I'm really with renton here, try to rep a weak made hand and let him valuetown or try to push us off.

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Renton
Old 12-06-2007, 06:51 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
versus a good player not wanting to raise a lot in this spot is exactly the reason why we'd want to do it.
while this sounds super cool and badass, i'm still not convinced that you should ever be raising this flop.
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sauce123
Old 12-06-2007, 11:45 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Roel
Old 12-06-2007, 12:36 PM #14 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
i'm still not convinced that you should ever be raising this flop.
This can't be right. We should never raise this flop? If it conveys strength we should be raising as a bluff often, and if it's read as a bluff we should raise for value here. Or am i missing something here?
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zook
Old 12-06-2007, 04:44 PM #15 (permalink)  
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I like calling here better multi-way, but like this raise size a lot if they pot's hu. I've been experimenting with minraises and near minraises a lot recently and I'm liking them so far.
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griffey24
Old 12-06-2007, 04:54 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
I like calling here better multi-way, but like this raise size a lot if they pot's hu. I've been experimenting with minraises and near minraises a lot recently and I'm liking them so far.
Yah I agree, I've been doing some pretty small raises lately in pots that are already pretty bloated (3-bet pots) where a smaller raise will give the impression of fold equity.
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