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Conflicting reads vs Donk

  
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-15-2007, 11:13 PM     Post subject: Conflicting reads vs Donk #1 (permalink)  
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 History: Villain is 50/10 with an agg of 1.5 on the flop through 150ish hands. First hand:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($103.10)
UTG ($96.60)
MP ($106.75)
Hero ($109.65)
Button ($39.10)
SB ($58)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, K.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, Button raises to $7, SB calls $6.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($22) 9, 3, 5 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($22) Q (3 players)
SB bets $8, Hero calls $8, Button calls $8.

River: ($46) T (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $8, SB folds, Hero calls $8.

Final Pot: $62

Results in white below:
Hero has Qh Kh (one pair, queens).
Button has 9c 9h (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: Button wins $62.


Then this hand comes:


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($11)
SB ($121.75)
BB ($100.75)
Hero ($142)
MP ($106.05)
CO ($100)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, K.
Hero raises to $4, MP calls $4, 4 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) A, K, T (2 players)
Hero bets $6, MP raises to $27, Hero...


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IowaSkinsFan
Old 04-15-2007, 11:34 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Wow, wtf.
but don't fold.
Check out the new blog!!!
 
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-15-2007, 11:38 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I definitely push, especially with how he played that set.
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sauce123
Old 04-16-2007, 12:06 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Hero: insta shoves and profits

also if hes a donk who doesnt understand pot odds u can call the flop and push any blank turn which is maybe better.
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Genitruc
Old 04-16-2007, 12:22 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 based on the previous hand, shove and expect him to show either A10 or Ax with a club.

You're ahead most of the time here. You have AA and KK blockers so only hand I'd be afraid of is 1010
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 04-16-2007, 12:27 AM #6 (permalink)  
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is hand 1 standard? i felt hero played a bit too passive.
 
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Halv
Old 04-16-2007, 01:27 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I was thinking the same thing on hand 1. Isn't a turn raise for value/protection standard?

Hand 2 just get it in somehow.

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elipsesjeff
Old 04-16-2007, 03:05 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
is hand 1 standard? i felt hero played a bit too passive.
facing a minraise from a donk I'm always wary of TP type hands. I'd probably fold a to raise or a larger river bet but i was too priced in.


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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-16-2007, 05:23 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 I think jeff played hand 1 well.
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-16-2007, 07:33 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 I pushed flop FWIW, he called and showed 87c FTW.


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zenbitz
Old 04-16-2007, 08:10 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Assuming you are ahead because he s/p set of 9s in the first hand is borderline retarded.
(easy for me to say after results, but I did think there was a reasonable chance he has clubs).

First hand flop is dry as the sahara, second it's wetter than, well, use your imagination.

I do agree it's hard to give a 50/10 credit for any sort of concious thought, but sometimes irrational people act as if they were thinking - i.e., "I slowplayed the last monster, lets play this one fast", or "I have a middle flush, don't want 9c/Qc/Jc drawing out on me".

Absent the first hand, he played the second one pretty well - because it's so easy to put him on a draw. The first hand... I think it was just a botched trap - but how much more were you going to pay him off here?

Finally, anyone consider folding KQs to the 3-bet OOP? Does the cold-caller make it easier or harder for you to call? 50/10 doesn't seem like a lite-3-bettor, but 99 is pretty lite, so maybe that's what I get for reading stats...
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Rondavu
Old 04-16-2007, 08:28 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I don't understand the lack of differentiating between strong hand lines and strong but vulnerable hand lines. You have to parce this in relationships.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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mcatdog
Old 04-16-2007, 08:35 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
I don't understand the lack of differentiating between strong hand lines and strong but vulnerable hand lines. You have to parce this in relationships.
That's fine Rondavu, but this opponent's concept of a strong but vulnerable hand doesn't necessarily coincide with yours. I'm sure you've seen plenty of guys move in here with A6o.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbitz
Finally, anyone consider folding KQs to the 3-bet OOP?
NO.
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bigspenda73
Old 04-16-2007, 08:45 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 @Zenbitz,

I would consider folding it for a much larger raise, not a min-raise.
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-16-2007, 09:04 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 Folding any hand after raising preflop to a minreraise is criminal.

I'd be able to fold my AK pretty easily against this opponent if it weren't for the first hand.


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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 04-16-2007, 09:11 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Folding any hand after raising preflop to a minreraise is criminal.
I don't think this is true.
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zenbitz
Old 04-16-2007, 10:00 PM #17 (permalink)  
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My thinking was that Button only has $32 behind. Implied odds ~10:1 with a trivially dominated hand. I guess your relative position is OK. SB has a 60BB stack too.

How DO You raise a $4 bet 3$??? Isn't to $8 the min?

I guess pot odds dictate a call here, but I am not happy.
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sauce123
Old 04-16-2007, 10:15 PM #18 (permalink)  
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This thread should be closed- you are ahead of his range and even more ahead of his range after the first hand.

the only interesting discussion in this thread should be shove flop or shove turn...
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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NLHE lahooozaher
Old 04-16-2007, 10:49 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I'd be able to fold my AK pretty easily against this opponent if it weren't for the first hand.
I disagree pretty strongly about that, not withstanding the results. In the first hand he flops the nuts on a drawless board. In the 2nd hand it's unlikely hero can draw to a better hand unless he makes a boat or bigger flush. Lots of bad players will push here for the same reason good players would raise with the nut flush here.
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-17-2007, 12:57 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I'd be able to fold my AK pretty easily against this opponent if it weren't for the first hand.
I disagree pretty strongly about that, not withstanding the results. In the first hand he flops the nuts on a drawless board. In the 2nd hand it's unlikely hero can draw to a better hand unless he makes a boat or bigger flush. Lots of bad players will push here for the same reason good players would raise with the nut flush here.
I should rephrase: I'd be more apt to flat call and fold to a turn push by opponent, as he's less likely to have a draw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Folding any hand after raising preflop to a minreraise is criminal.
I don't think this is true.
Run some pokerstove calcs and see what kind of odds you get. You're getting pot odds of 4-1 preflop alone.


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|~|ypermegachi
Old 04-17-2007, 01:39 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Run some pokerstove calcs and see what kind of odds you get. You're getting pot odds of 4-1 preflop alone.
almost reminds me of the good 'ol limit days
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 04-17-2007, 09:16 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Run some pokerstove calcs and see what kind of odds you get. You're getting pot odds of 4-1 preflop alone.
almost reminds me of the good 'ol limit days
yay LHE.


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Galapogos
Old 04-17-2007, 12:45 PM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Folding any hand after raising preflop to a minreraise is criminal.
I don't think this is true.
Yeah, if you misclick a 50bbs raise preflop then you want to fold to a min-raise. Outside of that, you crazy.


Quote:
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sauce123
Old 04-17-2007, 12:47 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Do any of you nits who want to fold realize we have FOUR OUTS!!! I mean, we must win, like, at least 41.34% of the time...
I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
 
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Ash256
Old 04-17-2007, 04:53 PM #25 (permalink)  
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 Nah, cause it's four outs twice if we push flop, it's 44%. Remember that if it's on the turn it's only once so we only have 4% which is why if in any hand you don't have the nuts on the turn you should fold.
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