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meeloche
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12-17-2007, 12:55 AM
Post subject: a common spot that I have trouble with
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Villain is unknown bought in in full and just sat down at the table this orbit. Is this standard, do I stack off here?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($90.40)
MP ($17.25)
CO ($54.80)
Button ($17.05)
SB ($52.05)
BB ($67.05)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J , J .
Hero raises to $2, MP calls $2, CO raises to $6.5, 3 folds, Hero calls $4.50, MP folds.
Flop: ($15.75) 8, 4 , 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $13, CO raises to $26
Hero...
PS I apologize if this is standard
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I think I fold here. I think preflop his range is mainly TT+, AQ+ and only TT+ would raise your flop bet here.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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why r we leading?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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oh an why so much?
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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If you're going to call the 3 bet then why not check raise? Is leading out better?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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Check/call against and unknown is way much better imo.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
If you're going to call the 3 bet then why not check raise? Is leading out better?
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Should we c/c or c/r? Do worse hands call our c/r?
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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yeah dont lead
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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I hate these spots.
c/f flop
and
c/c, c/c like some fucking station
both seem equally offensive.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
If you're going to call the 3 bet then why not check raise? Is leading out better?
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Should we c/c or c/r? Do worse hands call our c/r? |
the only worse hands that are calling our c/r are AdKd and AdQd. I like a c/c here. As played a $10 or $11 bet gets you the same info.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Harvey Dent
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 29
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Usually against a new player in this sort of spot I'd be betting $9-12 on the flop, then calling the reraise. I am always a bit leery pre-flop against unknowns, so I'd call the re-raise pre. Definitely leading this flop, it has come just about as good as could be hoped for. While this is the type of flop I like to see when holding a strong pocket pair, I would put pocket eights in opponents range. Given that we assign a standard range to the opponent (88+, A10+, various suited connectors), I don't know what this level is like in the online world, but in the games I play this has about a 40% chance of being two overcards that missed. I check/call any broadways for anything less than 1/2 pot, probably check raise any non diamond/broadway cards. River is still open, and very read dependent.
Edit: I like to lead this flop for info, also because I feel that I'm ahead here enough that a bet is profitable.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Have a plan
Don't lead out if you don't know what to do.
at 200NL and up this is a standard c/r for me, given that this is 50NL and i don't know what the usual standards are for reraising, squeezing, aggression etc. i just don't know what to tell you.
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BigPapi
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Posts: 437
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against standard TAG at 50NL I believe this means trouble. No way he's laying it down anymore with half his stack in there and he's trying to get you to call with a min raise. I doubt he has a set here, but something like QQ+/AK is very likely. AK usually shoves here though
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
at 200NL and up this is a standard c/r for me, given that this is 50NL and i don't know what the usual standards are for reraising, squeezing, aggression etc. i just don't know what to tell you.
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Why are you c/r'ing here? Against a solid 3-betting range against our UTG raising range he's drawing to 6 outs most of the time, if he doesn't already have us beat. He's probably not folding QQ+, and c/ring just lets him stop spewing his over cards to us? I realize there's a flush out, but that makes up a pretty small part of his range I'd imagine and we're only a coin flip against that range.
I think I like a turn c/r more than a flop c/r if we're willing to get it all-in either way.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Why are you c/r'ing here? Against a solid 3-betting range against our UTG raising range he's drawing to 6 outs most of the time
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Against a solid threebet range i'd stack off here everytime, against a super nit range of like QQ+, AK we probably should just c/c flop and c/f turn. But since he's unknown i feel kinda weird folding here and i probably go for the c/r as well. As played i fold though.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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also it has to do with my image
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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At smaller stakes I c/c flop and c/f turn until I know opponent can be 3betting a wider range than JJ+AK.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
At smaller stakes I c/c flop and c/f turn until I know opponent can be 3betting a wider range than JJ+AK.
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I think this is the best line. I don't like a c/r against unknowns at this limit because I would say that 80% of people's 3 betting range at these stakes is JJ+AK. Against certain opponents at these stakes I do think a c/r is good though.
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noble007
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 531
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oop I will probably either check raise all in or just check fold depending on reads.
As played I probably shove though,
He 3bet after a raise & caller - slightly more likely to be squeezey
A min raise gives great drawing odds to a flush & is not a standard line for someone who 3bet AA/KK to the to the right amount pre-flop.
Its still very close though.
- I dont like check call so much oop in a 3bet pot as you're going to to check to him on two more streets and it seems it will be to easy to move you off what could be the best hand. (Most people wont slowplay a set, AA/KK in a 3bet pot on drawy board so by the time you get to river your hand will be face up.)
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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if the standard TAGG is going to c/c flop and c/f turn here against our 3betting range should we start checking the turn more with AA/KK and shoving it with AK?
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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having a big overpair in a reraised pot thats not AA or KK is one of the toughest spots in the game
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
having a big overpair in a reraised pot thats not AA or KK is one of the toughest spots in the game
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Any general guidelines you can give? Probably too situational dependent.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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all depends on opponent
in general felting QQ against all but the biggest nits cant be too bad, however people probably overplay TT/JJ
to get people to do this v you just play AK like AA every now and then and they'll give you action
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