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Renton

12-08-2007, 07:01 PM

#101 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,992

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

All im asking for is an explanation as to what makes raising so great other than these 5 word adages

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

We've looked at every single factor of the hand in this thread... ...I'm not going to put this entire thread together and do all the math calcs to explain exactly why raising is right, i did that throughout and im pretty sure i touched on every single one.

ISF's and Gabe's Arguments for Raising by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Raise because he's not shoving you tards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

raise your monster

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

There's clearly FE so raise, {then more stuff about how he's not shoving}

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

{more stuff about how he's not shoving}

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Do you understand FE and equity???? It has nothing to do with forming a good range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

if you can be aggressive and not be blown off a draw you should do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

hell yea its a raise

IowaSkinsFan

12-08-2007, 07:27 PM

#102 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

Renton,

Congrats on doing that, if you're going to call me out thats clearly the best way to do it. But here's my counter point.

1. Your argument sucks, I've disputed every point you've made, and most points you bring up apply equally to raising as it does calling. The only point you've made is you think that shoving the turn if he bets will fold out AQ-AT, which is a fine point, but again i think you're overrating your FE and the assurance that opp actually bets the turn with AT-AJ (probably does though). Every other argument of FE favors raising the flop.

2. You're constantly making points about how our range is killed and blah blah blah. Our range was killed when the flop came, our range is way behind opp. There's nothing we can do about that, whether we raise or call.

3. Do you understand that FE and equity and metagame is essentially all poker is? I think for some reason you don't. I'm not sure there is one decision of poker that can't be explained through those 3 points.

4. About me using 5 word adages, thats ridiculous. I write long posts in every thread and reply I make.
And Cmon for calling out gabe, out of every poster here gabe has helped me the most with my game with his short responses, actually allowing me to figure things out for myself. He's given his reasons for why he does it, and he doesn't owe anyone anything, so if you actually want help with something you should be respectful.

Your posts have been incredibly emotionally prying, facetious, and charged. If you want to get any good responses from questions, those three qualites aren't going to get you anywhere. It's taken a lot for me not just to give you a big **** you. However, if you want to be annoying and use your posts as a way of asserting your higher intellectual value, I'm not going to listen to them anymore.

Check out the new blog!!!

bigspenda73

12-08-2007, 07:42 PM

#103 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

If we both have AQ and we're the aggressor, whose chances do you like to win the pot?

IowaSkinsFan

12-08-2007, 07:50 PM

#104 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

If we both have AQ and we're the aggressor, whose chances do you like to win the pot?

On the flop clearly we're ahead of his range.

On the turn we're not in great shape....

I don't rly get the question.....

Check out the new blog!!!

bigspenda73

12-08-2007, 07:58 PM

#105 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

If we both have AQ and we're the aggressor, whose chances do you like to win the pot?

On the flop clearly we're ahead of his range.

On the turn we're not in great shape....

I don't rly get the question.....

oh just some tangent on how taking the aggressive route in the pot if we have the same hand will win us the pot and never lose it for us.

Renton

12-08-2007, 07:59 PM

#106 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,992

isf,

The closest I've come in this thread to being verbally nasty or condescending was in my "RAISE (NOT CLOSE IMO)!" post and when i was sarcastic with spenda about 33. Also if i recall correctly I haven't used profanity once.

You on the other hand, are the one making the emotionally prying posts, and are the one asserting the intellectual superiority here. Not once have I bashed anyones ability to play poker during this thread. Not once have I questioned anyones fundamentals. And fwiw, i don't mind at all that you are questioning mine, I'm just bringing it up since you mention it.

As for gabe, he came back with a nasty and sarcastic post after all I asked was what flop his raising range would consist of here.

My game is in an extremely weird state right now, where im questioning EVERYTHING. As you know, I've been receiving coaching lately from a lot of angles, and the way some of these people approach standard situations is fascinating, and is from a different angle than I ever looked at before, and also from a different angle than that of the other coaches im seeing. They all look at things differently, uniquely.

Now every time i open up a HH thread post, I read the hand, I form my opinions, then I read the comments, and I'm never satisfied anymore. I always have like 5 questions, about topics none of the posters even mentioned or perhaps even considered. I always wish I had a great player right here nearby who could answer them for me.

I'm really glad that I'm against the grain here, because it means whether im right or not I'm going to learn (and have learned) a lot.

But you know what, I'm not gonna learn anything at all if the people that disagree with me aren't gonna give me answers and instead are gonna be all pissed off and sarcastic.

IowaSkinsFan

12-08-2007, 08:02 PM

#107 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Yes, you're right i have become emotional from this thread, and i probably started the whole issue so im sorry. But cmon Renton, to act like your responses to my posts have been calm cool and collective... I recommend you look over them again.

I'm trying my best to give all the points, i dont know what others to give.

Check out the new blog!!!

Lukie

12-08-2007, 08:25 PM

#108 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

hey guys you know you're allowed to balance your range right? and that whats best in the context of your game might not be the best in the context of someone else's game.

when me and isf talked, i said something like 80% raise, 20% call seemed good.

side note: nobody ever said a single thing in this thread (that i saw) about how big to make the raise or how to manipulate the pot on future streets. funny.

i think raising and calling run similar in value. very dependent on a lot of things, probably moreso than a typical spot like this.

against a great tagg, i'd probably call a lot more than against an average taggbot.

Lukie

12-08-2007, 08:33 PM

#109 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

also i had a horrid night's sleep so just pretend there is a really friendly tone because i didnt realize how it sounded when i wrote it.

thanks

your friend,

lukie

IowaSkinsFan

12-08-2007, 08:39 PM

#110 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Max did make point about raising size, i made a joking point though, i agree with Max's assessment.

What do you mean by manipulating the pot on future streets?

Check out the new blog!!!

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A common awkward spot