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mike2405
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09-02-2007, 07:01 PM
Post subject: Commited to QQ in 4-bet pot?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 61
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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
MP ($49.36)
Button ($29.59)
SB ($45.87)
BB ($20.40)
Hero ($49.50)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q , Q .
Hero raises to $2, MP raises to $8, 3 folds, Hero raises to $24, MP calls $16.
Flop: ($48.75) J, T, 8 (2 players)
Hero: ???
So pretty much every hand that would have called a 4-bet has me beat now with the J and 10 out there except AK. However, I do have outs with a 9 and possibly spades, but he may hold the A or K of spades. With so much money in the pot, even though I'm almost certainly behind, is this an easy push?
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Once you 4-bet you're making the decision to go w/ the hand. While you didn't hit a great flop, it's not terrible either as you have outs even if he flopped a set. You have to shove this.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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i wouldnt 4bet an unknown with QQ at 50NL. As played you should probably stick it in.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Hero pushes AI without hesitation
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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gotta push this. the 4-bet is questionable without reads, but its not *that* bad.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I'd 4-bet a little less here but you have to push now.
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drtofu66
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 595
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Ah, Party Poker. Those were the days. Oh, how I miss the sweet bonuses and clueless players.
Tell us poor Yanks who have our faces pressed up against the glass-- is it still as good as we remembered?
Oh-- and if you put ~1/2 your stack in PF, you're well past the point of being committed to the hand. Just make sure you hit the 9s before it's over.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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how is 4betting preflop bad?
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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yes
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
how is 4betting preflop bad?
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In very aggressive games, i think you have to 4bet Q-Q because most of your opponents are 3betting a very wide range. You are 4betting for value.
But in the 1/2 games at Pokerstars, i like to just call 3bets with Q-Q (although i do 4bet A-K). The reason i do this is to c/r or raise a c-bet when the flop does not contain an Ace or a King (i often float a King high flop if the board is dry enough and the opponent is an aggressive 3bettor). I still 4bet A-K because it has more value in a 4bet pot than Q-Q, and i would rather win the pot preflop with A-K since it has much less showdown value than Q-Q. I have found that most of my opponents aren't 3betting so much that 4betting Q-Q is as profitable as playing for stacks on the flop in a 3bet pot.
However if i know a particular villain 3bets a very wide range then i will 4bet Q-Q, with the intention of calling a shove preflop or sticking it in on a non Ace/King flop. However, after about 18k hands, i have only ran into like 3-4 regulars against who i will 4bet Q-Q.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Yeah, you have to go all in on the flop.
Board: Js Ts 8s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.581% 42.60% 01.98% 7170 333.00 { QhQs }
Hand 1: 55.419% 53.44% 01.98% 8994 333.00 { QQ+, AKs }
---
Even if he is only calling a 4bet with K-K+,
Board: Js Ts 8s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.909% 35.76% 00.15% 4248 18.00 { QhQs }
Hand 1: 64.091% 63.94% 00.15% 7596 18.00 { KK+ }
your equity is way too good, considering the money already in the pot.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
i wouldnt 4bet an unknown with QQ at 50NL. As played you should probably stick it in.
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Yupppp, probably wouldn't 4bet a total unknown at 50nl. As played, even though it looks like theres a decent chance your beat, you have to get it all in.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drtofu66
Ah, Party Poker. Those were the days. Oh, how I miss the sweet bonuses and clueless players.
Tell us poor Yanks who have our faces pressed up against the glass-- is it still as good as we remembered? |
No. The bonuses dont really exist anymore. The players are still pretty bad though.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
how is 4betting preflop bad?
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There are far too many people at these stakes who have very tight 3 betting ranges like AK/QQ+, and most of the ones who 3bet worse will fold to a 4bet. In effect, 4 betting turns your hand into a bluff. They either fold preflop (not as often as at higher stakes) or you are up against a worse hand. There are some players who I will 4 bet QQ but not enough to make it a standard play.
Also at higher stakes if you call a 3bet preflop and then go apeshit on a 6 high flop they will still put you on a slowplayed AA and fold their TT/JJ alot. At 50NL if we just call the 3bet preflop we are probably stacking TT/JJ when we both flop overpairs.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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