www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

combo draw, nice. i'll bet it...oops!

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

benny999

08-06-2007, 03:32 AM Post subject: combo draw, nice. i'll bet it...oops!

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

it was late and i wasn't thinking enough here...but now i def think reraising preflop is best.

mostly wondering ur thoughts on checking the flop, and as played, calling the c/r, since now im thinking those are better than what i did.

reads - button is loose-passive and utg is a good lag. sb is a tag multitabler.

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $3./$6.
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $731.20
Hero: $1837.65
CO: $309.85
Button: $854.40
SB: $904.90
BB: $432

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q

UTG raises to $21, Hero calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5

($90, 4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $66, Button folds, SB raises to $259.5, UTG folds, Hero raises to $934.5

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

IowaSkinsFan

08-06-2007, 03:59 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

i probably muck to the raise actually.

But yeah, I think checking is by far the best option on this flop given that most on it are somewhat deep and because your lead shows massive strength.

Check out the new blog!!!

benny999

08-06-2007, 04:11 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

really muck to the raise? i have some implied odds vs a set, though a 4 could be bad if he has 76dd.

silu73

08-06-2007, 05:09 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 1,009

I would just check behind on the flop. And also aren't you a little bit too deep to push with a combo draw here?

benny999

08-06-2007, 05:25 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu_nz

I would just check behind on the flop. And also aren't you a little bit too deep to push with a combo draw here?

being deep, ur saying it's better to just call for implied odds?

but ya i don't think he's going to fold if i push, and betting in the first place wasn't worth it.

IowaSkinsFan

08-06-2007, 05:36 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

really muck to the raise? i have some implied odds vs a set, though a 4 could be bad if he has 76dd.

Yeah nvm this is how i play it if i bet, i 3bet shove like you. But i like a check better.

Check out the new blog!!!

silu73

08-06-2007, 09:24 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 1,009

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu_nz

I would just check behind on the flop. And also aren't you a little bit too deep to push with a combo draw here?

being deep, ur saying it's better to just call for implied odds?

but ya i don't think he's going to fold if i push, and betting in the first place wasn't worth it.

I am not very good in expressing poker theory but with so many players in the hand and a loose passive button to follow I take my free card. I don't think that SB would be folding a lot here on this board and as played given that I have position I would just call.

Vi-Zer0Skill

08-06-2007, 11:17 PM

#8 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

According to the range i gave villain after his flop c/r, Hero is slightly better than a 2:1 underdog. With $400 or so in the pot after the c/r and $1800 in money in the pot after Hero shoved, shoving would then be -EV - assuming no F.E.

I think villain may fold two pair a good percentage of the time, since Hero could possibly have a set given the way he has played the hand. But even if villain folds two pair 75% of the time, he is only folding about 1/4 of his range to a shove. At best the play is 0EV imo.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

43,560 games 0.005 secs 8,712,000 games/sec

Board: 5d 2d 3c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.519% 35.02% 01.50% 15256 651.50 { AdQd }
Hand 1: 63.481% 61.99% 01.50% 27001 651.50 { 55, 33-22, A4s, 64s, 53s-52s, 32s, A4o, 64o }

I still think betting the flop is +EV because you are ahead of any one opponents opening/calling range PF, but once you get c/r'ed by the SB - and given the depth of the stacks - a fold seems best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

benny999

08-07-2007, 02:36 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

thanks for your analysis VZS, but i have a couple disagreements.

-im not too confident a 6-tabling tag would call with a 53s type hand pre, but maybe.

-i think checking the flop is more +ev, given that getting raised sucks, and a diamond on the turn lets me win the same or bigger size pot.

Alexos

08-07-2007, 05:58 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Montreal

Posts: 2,766

c/c> bet/shove > b/f

Getting raised is so terrible here, effective stacks around 150BB and all...

And VZS I disagree with the range too, the 53s is arguable but I'd also add some flush draws and gutshot straight flush draws, however it doesnt change the equity much anyways...

Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //

Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.

Fnord

08-07-2007, 06:19 AM

#11 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Would the SB play 88, 99 or TT like this? How about a worse flush draw?

150bb hurts, but I can't see how we can do anything here but GAMB00L

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Vi-Zer0Skill

08-09-2007, 03:59 AM

#12 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexos

c/c> bet/shove > b/f

Getting raised is so terrible here, effective stacks around 150BB and all...

And VZS I disagree with the range too, the 53s is arguable but I'd also add some flush draws and gutshot straight flush draws, however it doesnt change the equity much anyways...

I certainly am not going to disagree with your statement here, since i am unable to prove bet/fold is the best option when compared to c/c or bet/shove. But if you see this would you briefly explain what factors make the other two options better?

And yeah you and Benny are right that the small cards, though suited, are still probably too weak for a multitabling TAG to want to play them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

benny999

08-09-2007, 04:14 AM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,567

i think since he most likely has a set (maybe str8) here or a combo draw like 76dd or maybe K4dd.
from what ive seen of him he would just fold with a weak overpair when i lead there into 4 people, but maybe peel or raise with a str8 draw with it.

of the raising hands, sets arent likely paying for more than a psb or so, and both types of hands will prob push the turn if i just call the flop.

but folding isnt great either at this point since i have 30-40% equity and the pots pretty big.

sauce123

08-09-2007, 05:45 AM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Dizzy

Posts: 2,405

i would play it the exact same as you benny (tho i might raise pre) and im def not sure if its correct

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Latest Poker News
Bbickes	06-02-2012, 08:10 PM Merge Network 6.0 Looks to Retain Current Player Base
In an effort to perhaps keep players from moving to the new Revolution Network setup by the former Lock Poker, Merge Network has taken drastic steps to respond to their player base's requests to impro ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:44 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Short-Handed NL Hold'em

combo draw, nice. i'll bet it...oops!

Play for FREE and practice your game at...