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|~|ypermegachi
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10-23-2007, 03:19 AM
Post subject: check/shove always?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PartyPoker.php#converter]Party Poker[/url] Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO ($166.06)
Button ($210)
SB ($249.25)
Hero ($532.50)
UTG ($273.96)
MP ($148.85)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A , 5.
2 folds, CO raises to $6, 1 fold, SB calls $5, Hero calls $4.
Flop: ($18) Q, 8 , 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $16, SB folds, Hero ...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Money is too deep. I would just call here unless he's terrible.
Against a tourist in a live game, I'd make it $50 and shove any turn card expecting a loose call on the flop and a tight fold on the turn.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Money is too deep. I would just call here unless he's terrible.
Against a tourist in a live game, I'd make it $50 and shove any turn card expecting a loose call on the flop and a tight fold on the turn.
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i actually folded like a little pansy...
but then i thought...what does he have? i stoved it afterwards...
vs 99+ we have 42% equity
vs 99+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+ we are 43%
vs QQ,88,22 we're 25%
it almost seems like shoving would be a very high variance play which is very slimly +EV...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Folding here is terrible.
If he's going to call a re-raise with any two, then fold a lot of hands on the turn, that's the play. Given that it's online, c/r for balance sounds good, but puts us in a really shitting turn spot if called. c/c is reasonable.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Wow you reverse fished that one, seriously how does anyone fold a flush draw teach me.
Oh btw i call.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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i raise here... a shove seems excessive though.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
seriously how does anyone fold a flush draw teach me.
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oh, just play with scared money 
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
i actually folded like a little pansy...
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I don't get it.. you folded to just the flop bet?...
c/r here is good.. but at the very least call!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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I don't like a c/r and I don't like a lead.
I c/c and lead turns where I hit and perhaps c/r the right turn card that missed my hand as well.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Wow you reverse fished that one, seriously how does anyone fold a flush draw teach me.
Oh btw i raise to at least $49,99.
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fyp
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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folding here is disgusting. flat call, but a c/r is sexy sometimes.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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i raise for sure on this board, like 50-60.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Why is leading here bad? I'm trying to get better with my nut flush draw hands and am very curious.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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I lead the flop and push over a raise expecting a fold most of the time. Playing OOP with a FD is not fun.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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Calling sounds good but c/raising is better. Folding is just aargh.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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yeah yeah...enough with the folding!! i know it was teh crappy!
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Why is leading here bad? I'm trying to get better with my nut flush draw hands and am very curious.
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leading is good, but with relative position i tend to check any hand...it's fun if it goes bet, call, raizzzz.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by benny999
Quote:
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Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher
Why is leading here bad? I'm trying to get better with my nut flush draw hands and am very curious.
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leading is good, but with relative position i tend to check any hand...it's fun if it goes bet, call, raizzzz. |
So you're content to c/r here? Why would you raise here if everybodys advocating to call HU? I also thought it was HU on the flop, is leading better if it's HU to the flop?
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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i don't understand - only a few are saying call and i didn't see anything about being HU.
if it was HU i still prob c/r but think it matters less between that and leading and calling.
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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I was thinking bet/3bet not bet/call. Thoughts?
Quote:
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i don't understand - only a few are saying call and i didn't see anything about being HU.
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Maybe I just saw a few people say call and they said it a couple times. I thought it was heads up, just my bad.
Thanks and sorry for slightly hijacking here.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i'm confused as to why, Hyper, you are saying you "play with scared money," yet want to shove $160+ into a $20 pot?
and, why you are sitting so deep when scared? why didnt you leave the table when 150-200 bb's deep?
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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i just moved up, so i'm still not entirely comfortable "gambling," but after i folded i thought wtf, i would never do that at 100, and then realized what a good opportunity to check raise it woulda been. then i just took it one step further, that pushing 100bb we're pretty much breaking even, which makes raising probably the most +EV play.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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b/3b AI seems really sexy, but it puts us in such a shitty spot if he calls our flop lead and the turn blanks... eurgh
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Ravageur
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Official Montreal SwampRat
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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This seems like a pretty standard c/raise to 50/call shove or bet/3-bet or if called on flop pot turn/call shove hand  (guy has less than 100 bbs right? Get iT IN)
This is a pretty failproof/oversimplified way to play big hands oop but it's difficult to adjust against.
I don't like check/calling because i don't like checkraising the turn all in with a lot less fold equity than on the flop (what made hand can we have in this spot from villain's perspective - especially if we have a TAG image like hyper?) and checkfolding the turn is very very silly especially if we turn a gutshot or something cute. Also if we make the nuts we don't always get paid off.
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Family Cruise IMO
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ravageur
(what made hand can we have in this spot from villain's perspective - especially if we have a TAG image like hyper?)
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my image is a 16/14 nit...this is way tighter than i'd like to be, and hopefully as i get more desensitized i'll loosen back to the 21/16 i used to be.
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djzcko
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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Lead is good. Fold is bad. Fold is terrible actually. C/R is cool. C/C you might as well play with your cards face up. Bottom line is you gotta mix it up--you can't lead or C/R every time you have a made hand. With a lead, you can better define villains hand. If you C/C you are telling him you have a flush draw. C/R puts some doubt into villains mind about the strength of your hand.
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