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benny999
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09-12-2006, 06:52 AM
Post subject: cbet question- reraised pf, but OOP + flop sucks
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Button is a tag who raises a lot on the button, and shorty is unknown. I haven't reraised yet, and have a tag image.
Do you check or cbet? If you cbet, how much?
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No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
4 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $226
Button: $221.35
hero: $226.60
BB: $64
Pre-flop: (4 players) hero is SB with J J
UTG folds, Button raises to $10, hero raises to $30, BB calls, Button calls.
Flop: T 3 A ($90, 3 players)
hero???
I'm thinking just check and see what happens, because BB only has 30 left so he might push and then I can see what button does, and I'm probably behind now anyways. Too weak?
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Dr_Giggles
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The first part of your post throws a couple wrenches in the works when I think about this. As for ranges, this makes me think he's only raising on the button with an ace maybe 1/3 of the time if he's button happy like you say. On the other hand, he did call a $20 RR PF, and you mention he's TAG. If he's calling that size RR without an Ax or a big PP, that doesn't mesh with TAG.
I'm going to have to use your info to check/fold this flop if he bets; I can give this guy credit for an ace if he throw's out a pot-sized bet at my check. Anything less than that and I'm popping a big RR at him.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles
The first part of your post throws a couple wrenches in the works when I think about this. As for ranges, this makes me think he's only raising on the button with an ace maybe 1/3 of the time if he's button happy like you say. On the other hand, he did call a $20 RR PF, and you mention he's TAG. If he's calling that size RR without an Ax or a big PP, that doesn't mesh with TAG.
I'm going to have to use your info to check/fold this flop if he bets; I can give this guy credit for an ace if he throw's out a pot-sized bet at my check. Anything less than that and I'm popping a big RR at him.
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And if he calls?
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Dr_Giggles
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I think you're paying for info here no matter what. Chances are if he bets my check it will be propotional and I'll jump ship anyway. If it's small I call.
What's your analysis SIR?
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles
I think you're paying for info here no matter what. Chances are if he bets my check it will be propotional and I'll jump ship anyway. If it's small I call.
What's your analysis SIR?
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I was just wondering what you planned to do if he calls your raise. IMO, if he calls, you're FUBARed and should check/fold the turn. The pot is already $90 and any reraise is going to pretty much pot commit you. I don't really care for putting 1/2 my stack in on the flop 'for information' and frankly, if he bets a small amount on the flop I'll flat call and see what he does on the turn.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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In a 3way pot Im checkfolding this. If the shorty pushes and the TAG folds then I may call but probably not. HU I may cbet here, in a 3way pot I most likely wont and especially not with a shortstack in there.
Giggles, why does a PSB mean an ace but a smaller bet doesnt? My standard cbet on a draw heavy flop is a PSB, but in a reraised pot Im going to be betting less than that with or without an ace. If we have a read on his bet sizing thats one thing, but simply assuming and saying if he bets less you will push [given stacks and pot sizes thats your only option if you want to raise] is spewing money.
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gabe
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09-12-2006, 04:29 PM
Post subject: Re: cbet question- reraised pf, but OOP + flop sucks
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#7 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by benny999
Too weak?
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no, sounds good
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Dr_Giggles
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
In a 3way pot Im checkfolding this. If the shorty pushes and the TAG folds then I may call but probably not. HU I may cbet here, in a 3way pot I most likely wont and especially not with a shortstack in there.
Giggles, why does a PSB mean an ace but a smaller bet doesnt? My standard cbet on a draw heavy flop is a PSB, but in a reraised pot Im going to be betting less than that with or without an ace. If we have a read on his bet sizing thats one thing, but simply assuming and saying if he bets less you will push [given stacks and pot sizes thats your only option if you want to raise] is spewing money.
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PSB doesn't have to mean an ace....would just reinforce the range I felt he might hold...any large raise i'm folding anyway so it don't matter. And yes if he bets a small amount i'm calling because of the implied odds of hiting my set.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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I wasn't sure about this at first, but it makes sense to not donk away to a better hand oop, even though the pot is pretty big.
For results, I bet 1/2 pot, shorty called w/ AQo and button pushed with AKo and I folded. Coulda just saved $45 by checking 
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Don't c-bet into multiple opponents on flops that are likely to have hit one of them.
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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I hear that warpe...I think I have a more fundamental leak of acting too fast/not thinking enough and focusing too much on not appearing weak after being aggressive, especially oop like this.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Just c/f the flop. Call if shortie pushes and button folds. Cbetting here is spewing money; you're not going to fold out better hands (except the likely QQ/KK by Button) and worse hands won't call.
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