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IowaSkinsFan
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12-20-2007, 05:27 PM
Post subject: Can someone explain huge threebet amounts??
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Okay, this is just going to be short, but normally given 100bb stacks my standard threebet in position is 3-3.25x someone's raise, and OOP its 3.25x-3.5x. Is there any reason people are going as high as four or even 4.5 times someones raise? Are your threebet ranges that tight? Does anyone even realize the different reasons why we would want to make this size of raise?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I'm not talking about if there's a cold caller, obviously we want to raise more when there is a cold caller or 2.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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The bet pot button.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
we 3bet 3.5x in position and 4x OOP.
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this is where i got the idea. obv its not wrong to do this, but is it better to do 3x in position and 3.5x OOP (+ or - .25x depending on opponent)?
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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noble007
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 531
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Not sure of this, just trying to get involved in more topics...
I guess if your three-bet range was very tight & you knew villian was aware of this you might consider 3betting to a larger amount to cut down on his implied odds.
(like its easier to call a small pp to a tight players utg raise for set value then a to a loose players button raise - so the tight player could raise to a bigger amount utg to counteract this.)
I think its a bad adjustment to make though, and a better one would be to widen your 3bet range so people cant call to outflop you & you get many other benefits as well.
At my stakes the other reasons I see people increasing there 3 bet size sometimes are...
- They have AA/KK and the original raiser was utg/utg+1 so they think
there is a good chance they will still be called/even 4bet.
- They want to fight back against a LAG who they feel is raising too often,
but they dont really want to play a pot with him, just make him fold pre- flop and make him less inclined to raise/steal in future.
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Currently thinking of a new quote/signature... Some sort of prayer to the Poker gods for enlightment etc..
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Noble that reasoning is pretty solid.
I mean honestly i'm not sure if my threebet sizing is correct i just never understood certain large threebet sizing.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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In general I also follow the standard 3-bet to 3-3.5 x in pos, and 3.5-4 OOP.
The times I deviate from this are when the stack sizes are > 100bb, i'll 3-bet larger accordingly to take away set odds. (but this doesn't fit to your 100bb example)
Also kind of along the lines of what noble said, but if the original raiser is UTG and another caller and my 3-bet will look like a squeeze from the blinds, I may sometimes raise 4-4.5x to look more like a steal when I actually have a real hand. Surprising how often weaker hands call in this spot.
Another situation I may deviate from my standard 3-bet size is if I have been 3-betting a particular opponent very often recently, and I get a real hand. I may 3-bet smaller/bigger than standard if I think one size may induce a 4-bet/push from him.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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i pretty much threebet according to stacksizes. But if some donkey is going to call a 3.5x reraise witht he same range as a 4.5x reraise and i'm 3-betting for straight value then of course i'm going to 4.5x.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
we 3bet 3.5x in position and 4x OOP.
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this is where i got the idea. obv its not wrong to do this, but is it better to do 3x in position and 3.5x OOP (+ or - .25x depending on opponent)? |
I increased my 3-bet size as well when I saw that post. I have to admit I don't entirely understand why, but results certainly seem better since I started doing it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
The times I deviate from this are when the stack sizes are > 100bb, i'll 3-bet larger accordingly to take away set odds. (but this doesn't fit to your 100bb example)
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As the stack sizes increase I usually 3-bet a lot looser instead. I'm interested in people's thoughts on this.
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Seabass
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: trying not to die
Posts: 205
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It's been summed it up pretty well already. The big 3bets I see is mainly from tight 3bettters who know they are giving away that they hold a big hand when they 3bet.
I use 3.25/3.5 most of the time, something like 3.75 if they only open to 3bb. I dont do calculations or anything.
I dont realy 3bet looser with a deep stack as I 3bet pretty light already, unless I feal someone is playing scared. 2_Thumbs_Up, how is that working, in regard to the other players at the table?
I might bet bigger if I think the player in question dont care if I make it bigger. (Donkey/tilt) It's usualy a combo tho, a donk is stuck and desperate to play. He looks at his 2 cards and if he likes them I dont think he cares if its 3.5 or 4.5 to play.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Seabass
I dont realy 3bet looser with a deep stack as I 3bet pretty light already, unless I feal someone is playing scared. 2_Thumbs_Up, how is that working, in regard to the other players at the table.
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I'm not really in that situation often enough to tell. I've just thought of it as a reasonable adjustment to be able to 3-bet more speculative hands the deeper i get. Kind of like it's more ok to 3-bet speculative hands 100 BB deep than it is 20 BB deep. I may be way off in my thinking though.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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i dont think it matters much
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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the only time I do it:
1) notice a lot of call/fold flops on 3bets at the table (setmining)
2) villain is calling my 3bets lightly and their calling range is behind my 3bet range
everyone else? I have no idea
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