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dsaxton
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02-25-2006, 05:35 AM
Post subject: Can I possibly avoid going broke here?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Table is a bunch of loose-passives. Perhaps I should've just called the river, but I didn't want to lose value from a smaller set.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Hero ($633.50)
BB ($233.55)
UTG ($128)
MP ($114.30)
CO ($565.55)
Button ($164.30)
Preflop: Hero is SB with J , J .
2 folds, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, Hero raises to $16, BB calls $12, CO calls $12, Button calls $12.
Flop: ($64) 7, A, 5 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, Button checks.
Turn: ($64) 8 (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, Button checks.
River: ($64) J (4 players)
Hero bets $50, BB folds, CO raises to $164, Button folds, Hero raises to $400, CO raises to $549.55, Hero calls $149.55.
Final Pot: $1163.10
Results in white below:
Hero has Jd Js (three of a kind, jacks).
CO has 9d Td (straight, jack high).
Outcome: CO wins $1163.10.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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A $64 pot turned into a $1163 pot on one street...Hmm...
I'd be a little suspicious of what the other guy had. Actually, *really* suspicious. I probably lose my money here as well, but you have to wonder why a jack would cause *someone else* to get so freaky on you. You already have two of them, so you can pretty much rule out somebody else getting two-pair on the river.....
Thinking about it, there is absolutely no hand you can put him on other than 9T. In a four-way pot I'm thinking somebody would have told you by the river if they had two-pair or a set, or even a pair...
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Thinking about it, there is absolutely no hand you can put him on other than 9T.
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This is very easy to say when you're staring at the results. I've seen plenty of donkish slow-plays where the guy waits for the river to show interest.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Thinking about it, there is absolutely no hand you can put him on other than 9T.
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Some other hands make straights too. AA isn't impossible either.
I don't like the 3-bet either with that read. You got to slow down a few seconds, burn some time bank and start going through hands here. When Mr. Passive jams me that hard, I read the board a lot closer.
That being said, sometimes you're good here. If the 3-bet was all-in (less money behind) you'd have more value here. Allowing him to put in the buck fifty more when he wants really hurts your value.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I usually play sets a lot more cautiously on the river when faced with strength, but this board looked so completely benign. My first impression when I got raised was that I was looking at some weird straight, but I convinced myself that worrying about the straight wasn't worth the money I was losing when he had a set. I'm not sure if this thinking was entirely sound.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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In the heat of the moment these spots are tough. I make far worse plays all the time. Although I'm getting better about keeping my splashing down to small pots and small stacks...
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Thinking about it, there is absolutely no hand you can put him on other than 9T.
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This is very easy to say when you're staring at the results. I've seen plenty of donkish slow-plays where the guy waits for the river to show interest. |
This is true. In the heat of the moment I'm probably losing my stack here, too, as I stated before.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Thinking about it, there is absolutely no hand you can put him on other than 9T.
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Some other hands make straights too. AA isn't impossible either.
I don't like the 3-bet either with that read. You got to slow down a few seconds, burn some time bank and start going through hands here. When Mr. Passive jams me that hard, I read the board a lot closer.
That being said, sometimes you're good here. If the 3-bet was all-in (less money behind) you'd have more value here. Allowing him to put in the buck fifty more when he wants really hurts your value. |
True, 69 is possible, I guess...I don't see AA being very likely because there was no raise/reraise preflop, and no betting on turn/river. I've seen worse, though.
This is just a damn tough spot to be in.
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bdawg56kg
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 1,201
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This is probably somewhat results oriented, but maybe you could think of it this way. What hands will pay off your river 3-bet that you are ahead of? I think almost all 2-pair hands fold to the 3-bet (could be debated depending on your read and yours/his image) except maybe A-J, but given that 3 of the J's are out, A-J is pretty unlikely. Also, Ax 2-pair hands would probably not check this flop and turn through. That only leaves a lower set that will pay off to your 3-bet, but do you really think a lower set checks the flop AND turn? Or if he has 8-8, do you think he checks the turn in a 4-way pot with an obvious straight/straight draw on the board? I would think probably not.
Bleh, but I probably go broke here too. 
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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id rather lose the value on the river when JJJ gets called by worse hands than dump a big buy in stack on the river with the 2nd best hand.
Not often id say the river 3 bet is horrible but i think it is, at most id min raise this river for value and start reevaluating when the reraise then came back from opp...
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I think these responses would be drastically different if I hadn't posted the results.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
I think these responses would be drastically different if I hadn't posted the results.
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Agree. Curious...why no bet on the turn?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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id make a raise, i just wouldnt raise so much.
Then the river plays differently and allows you to get away from a hand that is very strong but not ctually the best.
Id still say id lose some value here just because a draw completed. Hence, the reason why on a safer board i go broke always here with say set over set.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
I think these responses would be drastically different if I hadn't posted the results.
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Agree. Curious...why no bet on the turn? |
or the flop for that matter just to see where you stand vs the Ace
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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I actually thought he had 69, before I looked. 9T way more likely, although poorly played until the river (not as badly played as 96... but still).
Perfect sized raise by CO. If he raises more, you might just call it, or worse, fold! If he raises less, you might get suspcious.
"bunch of loose passives" indicates to me that you can call the inital raise here. I probably would have made sticky in my pants when I rivered a set and faced had a bet raised, too, though.
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