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Calling raises with PP... random thoughts

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mixchange

06-14-2007, 09:10 PM Post subject: Calling raises with PP... random thoughts

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

Ok, this hand is pretty standard (IMO). If the $12 was the initial raise it's a fold, but we're price in after already putting in $4.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($36.70)
UTG ($53.30)
MP ($50.75)
CO ($38.50)
Hero ($100.10)
SB ($124.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7

, 7

.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, CO raises to $4, Hero calls $4, SB raises to $12, 1 fold, UTG folds, CO folds, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($30) 8

, 2

, 7

(2 players)
SB bets $15, Hero raises to $36, SB raises to $112.55, Hero calls $52.10 (All-In).

Turn: ($230.65) 9

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($230.65) 6

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $230.65

Results in white below:
SB has Ad As (one pair, aces).
Hero has 7c 7h (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $206.20. SB wins $24.45.

These situations are pretty straightforward when there is a raise and a re-raise -- this screams overpair to me, great chance of stacking off.

Now on to grey areas with PP:

1. action is folded to someone who is in the CO or on the button and is making a positional raise... say you've seen them raise it in the CO and the button to $4 quite frequently, a 4x raise. You are in the SB or BB, but it doesn't seem to matter because most of the time villain takes the blinds and you are heads up.

How often do you call with low PP? (22-66)?
Are you raising them with 77-99?
Does anyone not raise with 10-10 or JJ because we are OOP?

It seems like in these situations, we're not really playing for set value but calling because our hand has good showdown value if we just call villain down, or re-raise the flop.

2. You've seen an aggressive player make a lot of raises from a lot of positions with marginal hands. He isn't stacking off, and is folding turns to aggression, but plays PF and the flop aggressively.

How often do you call with low PP? (22-66)?
Are you raising them with 77-99?

I don't feel like we can play against him for set value, considering he isn't likely to stack off and we're often just entering raises pots with a low pair and it's hard to know where we are.

3. Come up with your situation. Limp/calling for set value has won me a huge portion of my BR, but I feel like I need to start finding spots to fold these, as sometimes I think the odds of villain stacking are more like 25-1 in certain situations, compared to the above hand I posted where I think villain is stacking 90% of the time.

Help me plug this leak. I can't seem to ever lay low/mid pp down, unless I'm getting worse than 10-1.

In another thread, I was discouraged to open limp on the button with PP. I suppose that makes sense, but I've been getting more money in hands where as many ppl saw the flop as possible. Would you raise on the button, but open limp in other positions?

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zenbitz

06-14-2007, 10:50 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,911

EDIT: I thought you were playing against CO, not SB.

mixchange

06-14-2007, 11:21 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

yes, I have read a lot of threads on this (I also created a thread showing my strategy backed with stats that were beating most of the people raising with PPs) but there isn't a lot of discussion of what do with frequent CO and button raisers who may have marginal holdings.
What do you mean my stack is too short for this? Using a 15-1 rule I'm getting odds on the first raise, but the second raise I think raises his odds of stacking to like 90% so I still think we're good to call.

I almost never open limp, but I do with PP and sometimes I complete the SB with hands I would raise with in other positions. I agree in 6 max with if you're entering the pot you almost always wnat to be the raiser.

Charlemagne

06-15-2007, 12:43 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 1

Against most any opponent I would be raising the CO here on the button with 7's all day long. 7's are just going to be so far ahead of a player raising from the CO's range.

IowaSkinsFan

06-15-2007, 03:54 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

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dont call oop as much as you think. It's okay to fold a lot.

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biondino

06-15-2007, 12:18 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

Most people here advocate never open limping in 6max. More extreme - some people NEVER call pre-flop, always raise if you are going to play. (their stats are normally like 18/18!)

Clearly these people never find themselves playing against laggs. I think it's MASSIVE leak to take pre-flop limping/calling out of your game and one day I'll get my thoughts in order enough to prove why.

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Calling raises with PP... random thoughts

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