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jyms
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08-13-2009, 04:34 AM
Post subject: calling 3bet w/TT $100NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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he's 22/18 textbook 2 street tagg who fancy's himself tricky, over 9K hands but a ton are mined. his 3bet is 6%in both blinds but 7 overall. I don't think I want to fold here but I really can't see a 4bet getting called by anything I am not WB/flipping with. On the flop he's Cbetting a ton here and I haven't noticed his 3bet flop sizing as being any different hit or miss.
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($100)
BB ($100)
UTG ($128.08)
Hero (MP) ($172.14)
Button ($97.96)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 10 , 10
1 fold, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, SB raises $10.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $8
Flop: ($23) 9, 8, 6 (2 players)
SB bets $14, Hero raises $29, SB raises $75 (All-In), Hero calls $60
Turn: ($201) J (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($201) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $201
I figure his Cbetting range to be 100% of his 3bet range, but I want to get this in right? I may fold out hands I beat but do I really want to see two more streets vs what could be just overs. I'm not sure he calls, with worse but I also don't know how to play if a J-A falls
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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He's oop, he's 3 betting a MP open his 3 bet is 6% (which is I would say low overall). I would say this tightens his 3 bet range considerably if he's positionally aware at all. Even if that's not the case I'm not super excited on stacking off on this board since you're crushed by his stack off range. So since I don't like bluffing with an over pair I'd call 1 and reeval turn.
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JL
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,095
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Why do you figure he would cbet here 100%? I am never cbetting AK here unless it's AhKh.
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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we're calling here mostly with set value since it's so cheap, sometimes we flop something with a decent amount of outs, like here - almost always 6 outs here, cheap to see a turn and re-eval. if he fires big turn on say a blank 2 i'd ditch it against this opp.
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1. you never fold hands you beat, I mean who folds JJ here considering you'd 4b/get it in with QQ pre and he has to put you on a set to fold when it's equally likely you have AhQh/TT/77
2. that said I don't hate the raise if he gets it in here with a wide range because we get value from flush draws, 78/67 or maybe flats and c/fs turn
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Quote:
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I really can't see a 4bet getting called by anything I am not WB/flipping with
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I think you can say the same about your flop raise.
I'd call one street and fold another. I can't imagine villain cbetting this flop light.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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We are so not calling for set odds and we so dont have set odds anyway otherwise its a fold. We are calling to also play postflop with some value to our hand or potentially bluff.
4betting would be spew imo and turn TT into more of a bluff vs his range.
I dont the read as tricky is accurate tho to a guy who 3bets only 7% overall, thats mostly nitty and probably 3bets a linear range. He only has a few bluff hands.
As played flop is kinda tricky, opp cb on this board will probably indicate you have very little FE when you shove so flatting IP with overpair and GS is a good move.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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how are you going to 3b 7% and not be bluffing?
top 7% in pokerstove: 88+,ATs+,KTs+,AQo+
obviously nobody is going to 3b KTs and claim it was for value
a more reasonable range for 7% 3b:
TT+,AQs+,A5s-A2s,T8s,97s,86s,75s,AQo+
4.7% is the widest value range you can assign to a reasonable player
some people 3b a more polarized range and have more air:
QQ+,55-22,AKs,A7s-A2s,T8s,97s,86s,AKo
which means he has air 2.6% of the time but also a shitload of hands he can 3b/shove as a bluff (suited aces, low pps) to be not as exploitable to 4b bluffing
so he's going to have between 2/3 and 1/3 air in his 3b range if he's 3bing that high
the average in my DB for players I have over 50 hands on is 5.4% 3b
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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i said a linear range is prob what he wil have 7% of. vs jyms who likes to call 3bets this is a better range. KT shouldnt be classified as either bluff or value.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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You have an overpair and an insider, and his range isn't wide enough for worse to call/get it in (all his draws have at least 50%) and better isn't folding.
Flat flop and re-eval turn.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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I really don't like this flop raise
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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anyone raise if the flop was 8QJ?
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bspahn
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 851
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
anyone raise if the flop was 8QJ?
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the only hand we're beating that we're getting action from on QJ8 is AK imo, good spot to call since he'll have to shut down with air most times
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
anyone raise if the flop was 8QJ?
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no because that flop cockslaps our 3b call range so he shouldn't cbet air
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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If you think he's betting 100% this is fine, but i doubt he is. Much better to just call if he's betting like 50-60% of his hands with a polarized range like he probably is.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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Funny thing, talking to Griffey from work on my phone I never realized this is MP. It's only 5 handed and I posted it thinking I was a BTN open. Although I am actually in the effective CO and it's 5 handed I still think the flop was bad for exactly what minSim said, I am WB/flipping vs most of his range. This hand worked out well in the fact that he had KQhh. But this brings up some interesting points. I do call 3 bets light IP which is why I also think stacking off here paid off this time. I need to obviously make some changes since they seem to be adjusting to me by playing this way.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
Funny thing, talking to Griffey from work on my phone I never realized this is MP. It's only 5 handed and I posted it thinking I was a BTN open. Although I am actually in the effective CO and it's 5 handed I still think the flop was bad for exactly what minSim said, I am WB/flipping vs most of his range. This hand worked out well in the fact that he had KQhh. But this brings up some interesting points. I do call 3 bets light IP which is why I also think stacking off here paid off this time. I need to obviously make some changes since they seem to be adjusting to me by playing this way.
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The fact you call 3bets lighter than most means this board can crush you alot so your action on this flop isnt gonna be loose from opp.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
I do call 3 bets light IP which is why I also think stacking off here paid off this time.
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I think this is a really bad leap of logic.
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